Metroid Prime Engineer "Let Down" By Exclusion Of Original Credits In Remaster

He's not wrong, it should have been included, even if it was a skippable event

It's lousy they didn't just tack on the original credits, not like they're paying by the letter. But also he's not going to come across well if he keeps popping up to say what's wrong with this thing everyone is enjoying right now.

I agree with him but this guy is starting to get a little whiny about the remaster. He’s just been crapping all over it since it dropped.

‘ave a day off will yer?

The Okami Wii end credits debacle I could understand, but you finished working on the game about TWENTY YEARS AGO.

Again?!? First repac now THIS?

I definitely think this should be standard practice. If memory serves, the 3DS Zelda remakes and Star Fox 64 3D have credits for the new version and the original.

Isn't that the same guy that complained about the doors he said he spent months working on having been screwed up, messing with the alpha, when in reality, the doors were fully redesigned intentionally? The guy hadn't worked at Retro for a long time, and this is how he spends his time?

Should be standard practice really.

The credits are extremely long and the music is looped even without the original credits.

At least shrink them and have them scroll real fast rather than nothing at all. They didn’t even get the door treatment!

Personally, if it was me, I’d be OK with that single card. I just think the new team that worked on the remaster deserve the spotlight this time, especially if I didn’t contribute anything new to the remaster.

I wonder if he would have had a different opinion if the remaster was a dumpster fire.

Are the people annoyed over this asking for double, triple or even quadruple-whammy credits in subsequent remasters? Credits to gameplay ratios are at risk here.

I’m grateful I got to buy and play a great game made by talented people. But really, credits are a weird thing specific to games and movies that maybe we don’t need to get so passionate about?

The single acknowledgment to the original team is enough.

Infuriating, so disrespectful.
Imagine Bluepoint leaving out Studio Japan’s credits on Shadow of the Colossus.

Original dev team should always come first in cases like this (not a fundamental remake a la FFVII) and then the remaster team

@B3RTAY No it’s not.
And it’s also how our work gets recognized to be hired for other jobs, plenty of times.

@DashKappei Let’s stick credits on everything and anything, then. That way everyone has a fair shot at further employment.

@B3RTAY don’t tell me you know nothing about games industry practices, NDAs and how curricula work, because you already did.
Can’t believe you seriously spelled that out and decided to post it anyway, honestly, a tad embarrassing imo. It’s not an ego thing you know. I mean, evidently for you videogames are not art, for me they are. A painter signs his art, as does a sculptor, a cinematographer, make up artist, game play designer, an art director, or what have you, their signatures are in the credits.

You’re a freelance illustrator? I look forward hearing back from you and how it’s all well if an illustration you’ve made gets picked up by another artist, straight up rotoscoped and then embellished with bells and whistles effects, new coloring, and you don’t get any credit for the original art, just the guy who made the “improvements” gets full credit, where the new illustration would literally not exist without your work. Crazy talking, the reasoning here it’s appalling to say the least.

Oops, they did a Pac-Man

I mean...mvg is not wrong

@DashKappei Seriously spelled it out? No. I was joking.

I was a freelance illustrator and worked hard to get my name out there. If you’re talking about credits as a means to get further employment, surely including the entire original team pulls focus away from the people who actually did work on the remaster?

Especially given the reported crunch, which seems to be less common at Nintendo internally but appears to have quite the precedent at second party studios and subsidiaries.

@BenAV Or include them all but make them engaging like in Smash or WarioWare. Although of course that wouldn't fit the tone of more serious games like Metroid.

Yeah they deserve credits for creating the original game. Just put in special thanks to the original team.

The guy is allowed to voice his opinions about a game he was a part of on his private twitter account. A little criticism won't take the enjoyment out of the game.

@B3RTAY At this point, you're just trying to say anything that would be the direct opposite of whoever you are speaking with. People don't just get handed being in game credits. They put in work to get there.

Seriously, @ Nintendo Life, you should just shut down your comments sections on all future articles. It's just attracting pointless trolls and incessant arguing. This place used to be so cozy.

@SonOfDracula Actually it’s just one person who I seem to have annoyed through being jocular about an absolutely tiny non issue.

Was just trying to be humorous while standing by my actual point.

Absolutely stand by you on comments sections, by the way.

No offence to anyone but I just sit through credits. Umm, ok, it would make it a much longer roll but I don't see it being that detrimental by including the original teams. They could even have it has an option to view in the menu or something. I wonder what the reasoning is in this practice.

@GrailUK I get what you're coming from and I don't read them either, but from their perspective if I was working on a project for months or even years that small acknowledgement would probably mean the world to be especially knowing if said project was a huge success.

Everybody should be credited for their work regardless of how much they contributed, whether it was directly or indirectly, or how many times the game has been ported / remastered. I enjoy watching the credits. It gives me a sense of scale, and I try to look for the names of people I know.

This is definitely poor behaviour…

@iLikeUrAttitude Exactly. It doesn't affect me one way or the other so I can't see why they wouldn't just do it.

Personally, I don't find the game fun, but I agree that it sucks their names weren't included. Always give credit, it's just the cool thing to do.

I’ll be the contrarian and say that I think the way the credits were handled here makes perfect sense. The original game (and Wii re-release) are quite old. Those teams are explicitly “credited” here. It isn’t difficult to look up their names in the original credits.

But a remaster is a new project, at a new time and with new developers. This is their work, and they are the ones who should receive credit by name. Noting in the credits that their hard work is based on the hard work of the original dev teams doesn’t seem insulting or inappropriate to me.

@mereel I'm going to have to slightly disagree with you. This isn't a "new" project. It just redoing already previous done assets. It's nearly a carbon copy just HD-Fied.

If it was an entirely new game, then for sure I'd say the guy is just complaining, but both should equally credited since it's old game just with a makeover.

I disagree. They are two entirely seperate projects that occurred a long time from each other. The nod to the original team is a nice and adequate gesture. Doesn't need full credits at all.

It's Metroid, not Retro's own IP or game. Nintendo provided the 2D blueprints and you created a 3D version.

What these people fail to understand is that they worked for a company. The game was not or has never been their individual game. If Retro Studios was not credited it would be a fair complaint but for every individual, that worked on the game 20 years ago, to want credit for a remaster they did not work on is a bit desperate. They all got paid didn’t they, they don’t own the game or the IP do they.

Same with Goldeneye. Stop living the past glories and do something relevant now!

Whether we think he's whiny or not, I agree with him on this.

Ok it's twenty years old. But the remaster would not exist without the hard work of the original team. They should therefore be acknowledged properly.

@bonjong23 so crapping over a game is making two posts on twitter voicing legitimate gripes?

I think most people would agree that the original team should be individually named after all this game wouldn't exist without them.

His door 'complaint' is him being passionate about something he spent many hours working on. It will be interesting to see if its altered in a future update.

He's been complementary about the game as well as the team who worked on the remaster so he really hasn't crapped all over it at all.

Imagine if retranslations of books or remasters of films had the same attitude of not crediting the original crew.

Lets be honest here as well, they could have just included an option at the end to roll the original credits or put them in the options menu which unlocks on completion of the game, its really no hardship to do that is it.

@SonOfDracula No offense, but trolls are going to apart of everything, and shutting down a comment section when they don't even make up of the vast majority here is silly imo.

As someone who's frequent such forums as steam, people with the slightest dissenting opinion are labeled a troll. The comment section allows people with an actual opinion to get it across if they agree/disgree with what's being said by the presenter.

Even here some people get called a troll simply because they call out an article or just don't see the big deal about something.

So no, I don't think Nintendolife should close the comment section as I think people with legit opinions be it positive or negative should be shared.

Arguments are not in themselves a bad thing when both parties are debating eachother respectively. It's when mudslinging comes into play that it should stop, and honestly despite the bad apples here, I have seen most people respectively argue their points.

Tl:dr If the comments bother you, then why not just ignore them? I don't look at youtube's comments because nothing there interests me, but I don't advocate for youtube to shut them down either.

@GrailUK I don't get why you're saying exactly as if my reply proves your point, I was saying how it can matter a great deal for the people actually involved in the project.
It may not mean anything for you me or most people that play the games but anyone passionate about their craft will probably want to be credited appropriately.

@iLikeUrAttitude Sorry, but the argument is it's Nintendo's IP therefore you aren't allowed to feel anything for all the work you did. Even though Prime wouldn't have existed without the OG's teams ideas and hard work but eh.

The original team didn’t make the remaster though. I could see a thank you to the original team and not listing by name (which was done) but credits are also adhoc resumes. It would be disingenuous for a person to name drop this game when they didn’t work on this version. The only time a person should continue to get top billing imo is if they made the IP. If Metroid was his creation/world then sure he should be on anything that uses that IP.

(I do wonder if it had been a bad remaster would he care so much)

@Vexx234 There are plenty of other avenues with which to share ones opinions, many of which are more actionable and useful than this one. This site's comments section isn't serving a purpose other than to generate extra clicks per article from repeat visits. Shutting it down would be great for everyone's headspace, so that we can just focus on the articles without needing to read the vitriol that people cook up, here.

@SonOfDracula what a ridiculous thing to say! Curb free speech and shut down comment sections because you do not like a comment? I for one enjoy the comment sections and having the option to say something!

@quinnyboy58 It's a comments section. Your free speech is safe regardless of if it exists or not. In fact, the comments section does less for your free speech, because this is a place that your speech can be moderated in a way that goes above the law of whatever land you live in. If you want free speech, don't look to places that moderate what you say.

@iLikeUrAttitude Because I'm agreeing with you. Because it would mean something to others, I can't see why they wouldn't do it. It doesn't bother me any. Don't be hard work, now! Maybe re-read my original comment? I was saying I don't get why their names were excluded.

Oh wow what the hell. This isn’t “based” on the original game- it IS the original game. Everything is identical apart from the facelift and bonus content. They really should fix this.

@mereel If this were a total remake then this would be an appropriate credit but it’s really not that. Everything about it barring the new graphics and bonus unlocks (which in themselves are partly made up of content made by original staff) is identical to the original, from the music to the gameplay. Everybody involved, both original staff and the team who made the remaster should be credited. If this were a total reimagining of the original game made from scratch (i.e Zero Mission, Samus Returns) then I wouldn’t expect everybody on the original team to be credited but when you’re literally building off of the exact same game that other people made, credit them too. This is a beautiful remaster with a ton of work put into it but it’s only as good as it is on the whole because of those original staff members who poured their hearts into it.

More vain attention seeking antics from this guy, moans about the doors, now is complaining about the credits, suggesting all the original team should be included, buy in reality he means himself.

This remaster has had a lot of work done on it, and those people are rightly mentioned, for the sheer amount of effort that has gone into basically overhauling the game. It is right that the credits should reflect this.

This guy and others were mentioned in the original release, and I am sure the re releases on both the Wii and Wii U, so not entirely sure of his point here.

@SonOfDracula,

You seem to label everyone a troll who does not agree with you, that's not how a comment section should work, as it detracts from people actually trolling.

I get it the mass majority may feel the none inclusion of the original team is wrong, however I see it also from the side that did a massive amount of work on this remaster, and as I am sure there are a lot of people involved in this, so perhaps Nintendo felt the original developers would detract from this somewhat.

@electrolite77,

You have to take every game on it's own merits as it were, if this had been just a re release of the original, upscaled in HD, then I am sure there would be no issue with the original teams inclusion.

But it is twenty years or so ago, and this remaster is a much bigger undertaking, so I feel only the people involved directly should be mentioned.

@Father-Noo Thanks! That's what I do. Imo, cutting off comments because of trolls in the process destroys meaningful conversation.

We can't defeat trolls 100% because as something grows in popularity so too will it bring those types of people. It's just ignore them, or just avoid comments all together.

Cutting off comments in my opinion would make things more boring here.

Some games have a way to see credits, no need to beat the game. Why not adding that with two options? One for the original team and one for the remaster team. It's possibly not the best way as well, but those who are interested to check the original team can get to see them.

If this were a remake I'd understand but they're only building upon the framework that the original team worked so hard to create and perfect. Just seems like a slap in the face to them to omit their efforts, especially since we don't even have an official way to go back and play the original. Almost as if Nintendo is content to bury their past and anyone that ever helped make them what they are today. Enjoy your time in the limelight remaster team, Nintendo will surely bury you too.

@quinnyboy58.

I don't think this is an issue for all of the original team, one member is complaining about a few aspects, first the doors, now the none inclusion of the original members in the credits, but we all know it's himself that's far more put out by all of this, using the collectives outrage as a way to add more weight to his complaints.

@johnvboy Sorry mate, but as former carpenter, I think he has every right to complain about those doors. Sorry we don't live in your doorless ivory tower, but some of us get quite upset over the quality of doors in any medium.

Either do you it right the first time or don't add doors at all.

@Vexx234 If you cut off the comments, the only things left would be the articles, so it makes one wonder why you visit a site that you believe has boring writing.

@SonOfDracula,

Not sure what you are asking for hare, no comment sections at all, or comment sections where any opinion you do not agree with is not allowed, as it's trolling.

@WaffleRaptor01,

It's a remaster of the original game, and the people working on it can change what they want, he can have an opinion on it as well as other things, but he does seem to be coming across as attention seeking to me.

@johnvboy Hah, I'm joking around.

@WaffleRaptor01,

Sorry mate, should have seen you were joking a little, but you never know on here.

Wow, that's really crappy. This project wouldn't exist at all if not for those guys who made the original game. I hope they take this feedback on board and add them in like the Pac-Man World 2 remake developers did.

How is he attention seeking? He's posted two tweets both of which Nintendo Life has reported on, that's it.

@B3RTAY "Are the people annoyed over this asking for double, triple or even quadruple-whammy credits in subsequent remasters? Credits to gameplay ratios are at risk here"

Sure, why not? Sonic Colors Ultimate credits lasted half an hour. It's quite simple: You give people the option to fast forward or press A to skip if they don't want to watch it all.

@Clyde_Radcliffe Or if you're evil, give people the only options to slow down or rewind. "Sorry pal, but these credits are happening one way or another!"

@Morph,

He has got attention for this, and directly on the games release so he gains the most exposure. It's pretty obvious to me.

@Clyde_Radcliffe

Groovy, Clyde.

Let’s have a half hour sequence that everyone will absolutely skip, rather than a succinct acknowledgment people might actually read.

@B3RTAY Well honestly, I don't see a problem with what Clyde is saying. Think of the many people you've met or saw that have walked out during the credits of a film. Or how many turned off a movie, or how many people pressed the skip button during the end credits.

Clyde is just saying that with options no one would be forced to sit through the credits while still giving proper credit. Half the majority don't watch credits but we give them anyways to acknowledge the hard work put into a product.

People in the industry pretty much know the average person won't sit through the credit screen. Heck even some of them don't either, but it's still done regardless.

To all the people defending this practice. Imagine that a company comissions you to create a work of art based on one if their IPs that becomes critically loved and sells well commercially, and you become well known for it within the industry.

Now imagine that 20 years later the company comissions me to make it look 'newer and shinier' and touch up the colours, lighting effect, etc but the artwork was still very recognisably the one you created. However, I sign my name prominently on it instead and have, in much smaller writing underneath, 'Credit to the original artist'. And then this artwork becomes popular with a newer audience but the only person who's name ever got mentioned in association with it was mine. How would that make you feel? Would you be absolutely fine with it?

@johnvboy a game comes out that he worked on previously and he comments on it, its hardly attention seeking

@TromaDogg I don’t think any creator working now is relying on end game credits as the one source of acknowledgement for their hard work. A game as big as Metroid Prime has easily hundreds of hours of hugely positive retrospectives, documentaries and reviews on YouTube alone. If I worked on the game, I’d be satisfied with that.

@B3RTAY Good, but that's just you.

@B3RTAY so what if it is 20 years or 5 days ago. You’re playing the work product of that I original team, they all should be credited just like any other game.

@B3RTAY you’re missing the point. Credits are not for you or the gamer to see or enjoy. It’s the mark for the developers to say “hey, I did this” and further down the line prove they were part of a project for future jobs.
You are completely missing the point about WHAT are credits.
Also, yes, the original team should be acknowledged, each and every one of them, because they were the designers and programmers that actually DID the whole game. The other studio worked on the painted canvas they already did before.

I REALLY don’t believe you work as an illustrator because you would know this, as it is the most BASIC thing in the design industry. And I’m saying this as an experienced digital designer with more than 15 years in the industry.

Honestly the best solution is to add in the credits for the remaster and the original team but make it skippable, do people here remember how long the credits for Sonic Colours were? Nearly 15 minutes! And that's the original credits! Colours Ultimate's credits is more or less double that length because it includes both teams and ya can't skip it!

Here we go again! Is it some kind of arrogance, or the fear of having to pay them again? Don't be a a..hole and just add those credits, always!

I do understand what he means, but you won't hear me complain that nobody who enters some specific models of Volvo cars gets a reminder that I helped build those cars and introduce the building proces in the factory, specifically the doors they have to open and close each time they enter or exit, let alone complain when they changed something again in later versions.

When I'm done with a game, I want skippable credits. If the people who worked on the original want some kind of reference for a portfolio, I understand, but that note should be enough to refer to the original. If it's pride, and you want the whole world to know your name, know that nobody reads the credits, we all want to skip them and be done with it (and see if there's a hidden scene after the credits maybe).

@Shambo

Guy 1: "Honestly, I don't care who knows i did it, I'm just happy to have been apart of it"

Guy 2:"Yep gotta say it wasn't easy, but I did it all on me own I did!"

Guy 1: "Hey, bud what you doing claiming you created that! I'll have you know I spent hours and days bringing that idea to life and here you are patting yourself on the back for it!"

Guy 2: "Well, I mean you did say you didn't care if people knew your name or not."

I'm gonna agree with "more credits plz" crowd, simply bc this developer dude worked on a game and is asking to be credited. Also, I realize this is a remaster, but even chickens give credit to eggs.

@Shambo Nice comparison! No, not really no.

I wonder if they still would want to be credited if it was a trash port.

@BlueShellYoshi I don't see why not? Good or bad it doesn't negate anything. A port is still a port at the end of the day.

If anything a bad port would have just made more go back to the original.

This guy again, seem like he's just not a happy guy in life. I wonder how many more of the original dev would complain about the Advance Wars remasters since WayForward is handling it instead of the original team. It seems like all these complaining came from attention seeking American devs rather than the more professional Asian or European devs. I don't hear the original team complaining about Ogre Battle Reborn, Final Fantasy VII: Crisis Core HD, Xenoblade Chronicles: Definitive Edition, The House of the Dead Remake, Wind Waker HD, and Resident Evil 2 and 3 remake.

Why would he want to be credited if the doors is not up to his standard?

@Morph,

I think it's exactly that, as so many people on social media these days, you however do not feel the same way, no big issue, let's just agree to disagree on this point.

@Arawn93,

Seems strange, on one hand he is complaining about a certain aspect, then in the next breath moaning that the original developers are not in the credits.

Who sets the standard though, and what are the rules about all this?. I feel the new doors are much better and more in keeping with the later games art style, and are much easier to make out.

I still refuse to believe they have spent so much time on this game, and just rushed the doors, it's clearly a design choice.

Part of making something and transitioning it is watching others make something different than you would make and that is hard.

I watched NL’s side-by-side and was repeating baffled by some of the visual changes between the two games in the credits, lighting, etc. But I also recognize that design is hard and I have no idea what kind of constraints were imposed on thr artists, development team, etc.

I get where this dev is coming from and I think he might be an amazing DF retro guest. I am glad that there are still places on the internet where we can hear this kind of talk rather than it just being a ratioed, corporate hellscape.

@BlueShellYoshi,

Very good point, very much doubt they would want any mention if the game was a train wreck.

If it was a remake, it would have been fine not to give detailed credits of the original team. This is a remaster though, aside from the fresh coat of paint and a few QOL additions, it is the exact same game, running the exact same code. They should 100% have complete credits of the original team, since their work is used directly.

Seeing at this guy's recent tweets, aside from this and the door comment, he has only been saying that it is an amazing remaster and retweeting positive comments about it. So some of the comments in this comment section are just plain fake news.

@Bratwurst35
A) If he truly is happy to have been part of it, it doesn't matter what happens once he sent it out in the world.
B) He has a reference.
C) Nobody's name really matters if you ask me, pride is a silly thing in my own opinion. I just read his name and I'd have to look back to remind me of it if I had any interest in it. That doesn't mean I don't respect them as living beings with soul, spirit, mind, body, free will,... all with full potential. On the contrary, i don't degrade them to the value of their work and their name. But that is a philosophical point probably best discussed in person, not here.
D) And even so, I think you misunderstood my intentions, I'm by no means hostile towards the guy, just saying how I see it personally. I understand what you mean, and what the "guy 1" means, but he might want to learn to let go, in my opinion.

@Frailbay30
He designed and built virtual doors, I built car doors, helped improve on their design with months of experience in practice because they are not a copy-paste code (without meaning to be degrading towards that code, it's just a different production proces requiring different approaches, in my case many, many uncredited people), and helped to teach all operators (of which I too was one, uncredited) the proces of making them. One resulting in a video game door that was remade, another resulting in a car door that was or probably will be redesigned later (don't know, don't care). But you don't need to like my comparison, it is one, and it is a valid one. Even without considering that YES, you can perfectly compare apples and oranges, you put things side by side and list similarities and differences, both of which apples and oranges have a lot, that is a comparison.

This screams of a cynical attempt to be able to include a more “recent” (and rather prestigious) work to one’s CV (and IMDb profile).

With respect to key creatives, it would be appropriate to credit them again if their work is featured (writers, directors, voice cast, level designers etc.), but for the most part, crediting EVERYBODY all over again is a redundant and disingenuous reflection on the extent of people’s contributions to the work as a whole. Marketing and QC departments, to name a couple, are arguably inconsequential to the newer work and should be cut.

Credits sequences are already bloated enough with the addition of personnel who have had absolutely nothing to do with the actual development of the game. Incidentally, the credits for the classic DOOM ports were laughably long, with what seemed like a few hundred people for a game originally made by only six or so men (yet the porting team took centre stage, which I found to be quite disrespectful).

If you had any part in making a game as rad as Metroid Prime, you shouldn’t need any extra accolades. You know who you are. We don’t, but we thank you all the same. We enjoyed what you made. Thanks.

I could understand if they didn't give out any credits and people complained, but this time they are complaining about even generic credits?

I mean, its not like the guy was a consultant or an active member of Remaster development, the assets he made are still property of Retro and his credits are still on the original release of Prime, crediting everybody again seems redudant.

@sleepinglion they should all be included and they should all be skippable and accessible from games home menu upon completion. This is so basic and easy to implement.

@electrolite77,

Fair enough, we can't agree on everything. My take is that Nintendo wanted to praise the people who worked on this remaster, and in some way thought including the original development team, would somehow detract from that. Not sure cost has anything to do with this decision either, but it's up to Nintendo at the end of the day, their IP their rules.

And I also do stand by my original point, the original developers have been credited for their original work many times over. So this is not as big an omission as some are making out.

For me personally, I don’t think it matters if the name is left out for the remaster. The individual still worked on the original game and that information can easily be traced down. It’s not like they are magical erased from the project as a whole. It probably would be easy to copy and paste all the names and there shouldn’t be a reason it’s not there…but it’s the credits so who cares really? 😅 im gonna skip them in the end

@bonjong23
I think it's just having to process your legacy being replaced by a remaster and having people "comment" on how it looked on the NGC back then despite not knowing the NGC had 24Mb of RAM.

I think his comments are far from "sh#tting" on the remaster

Not the popular option here, but they should just end credits all together. That's what the resume is for. Ok, maybe credit the big players, but I don't need to know who cleaned the toilets during game making (embellishing here a bit).

jeeeez Nintenduh, that's pretty low!!

@Dman10,

Now we are into a different debate, not that I totally agree with you, after sitting through the latest Marvel movie, and the credits lasting forever, surely we do not need to know who made the cupcakes.

This is very unusual for Nintendo. If you look at all of the Zelda remasters, they keep the full length of the original credits AND add a second credits sequence dedicated to the remastered version.

@johnvboy So which union do we piss off by getting rid of their members credits first?

It surprises me that Nintendo would do this. Not because I think Nintendo is better than other companies or anything like that, but because I’ve played Nintendo remakes in the past and they did have the full original credits. I wonder why they wouldn’t do that this time

At this point I hope that the development studio addresses these small issues in a patch, by which I mean the credits not including the original staff, beam shots not lighting up the environment, and no native GameCube controller support. The latter two are minor nitpicks, but the first one should justify an update alone.

Wow, that is too bad. How do you not give it up to the original dev team? Better patch it in!

@Wheatly

As far as examples outside of the entertainment industry, a good comparison might be academic journal articles, scientific or otherwise, or a nonfiction book that synthesizes a large amount of info--new articles, books, etc., need to cite their sources.

Another good point of comparison might be allusions to other works in film and TV and literature. I'm currently reading the Day of the Triffids, and the screenwriter of 28 Days Later took inspiration from that novel for the opening scene of the film. In an instance like that, I don't necessarily think Alex Garland (the writer) needs to cite the novel.

The difference between the two comes down to the admittedly murky idea of if a game, book, whatever is a new thing or a continuation of someone else's work. Science articles build on the work of others directly, but literary allusions and the like create new content from old pieces.

But since it's so murky, I prefer to follow the advice from teachers--when in doubt, add a citation. I don't see any harm in crediting the previous work, so why not?

New project, sure, but old code, old assets. Those people deserve equal credit, this project would not exist without their efforts.

@Shambo this is the literature major in me talking here but marx would have a field day with your comments

@Vordus,

Not sure if this could be an issue for Nintendo, although I doubt it. Just imagine the outraged comments when Nintendo go against the unions.

@somebread,

On an unrelated note, everybody has heard about Karl Marx, but not many know of his sister Onya, whose name is mentioned at the start of every athletics track race.

@johnvboy hear there was a nasty fight when someone called her name out at a Hell's Engels drag race

@somebread,

They just take things way too seriously.

@Wheatly,

You would have thought that was a pretty easy thing to do, if you wanted to or even cared.

But the outrage and injustice of this is very real for some on here.

@Wheatly,

So true, and if anyone on here is suggesting they read all these credits, weather it's a game or movie, then I simply do not believe them.

@somebread That might be, but just like capitalism, communism would not have me as a slave. As for "politics", I'm completely anti-political. No one is to coerce anyone into accepting their will as "law", their hierarchical "order" as real, their punishments for disobedience as "justice". Not "majority voted representatives of the people" that are neither and weren't justified authorities over the ungovernable and sovereign even IF they were both, not "the greater good" according to any group conflicting with that of any other, not any individual, not any parliament.

Both capitalism and communism are part of the same slave system, that sees living beings not as sovereign individuals with their own judgement, standards, experiences, perspectives, and highest authority; but as exploitable "resources", with slightly different takes on how and why as indoctrination and propaganda. And it's all nonsensical.

And that's just me writing. Nobody cares what my name is. Just the village idiot in a society of idiots. A one eyed king in a nation of blind where eyes are outlawed and the people would stone anyone who they were told has eyes. But well, I'd gladly have a talk with that Marx guy and hear from himself, in dialogue, not monologue. Just as I would with every "leader", and I would follow none.

My opinion is this: the og team did the og game, and their names are in the og credits.

The new team did the remaster, and their names are in the credits.

OG team gets a shout-out in the form of "based on the work of OG team", and that should be plenty good.

But since people are up in arms about it, I'd patch it just to keep positive press and sales. I personally think if it was me who worked on OG prime, I'd be fine with that inclusion.

@johnvboy In a world of billions of people, you find it statistically impossible that a good portion of them actually take time to read credits? Including me?

What is it with Nintendo always getting these offended ex-developers. We got the GoldenEye crybabies and now this guy.

@Wheatly

I'm suggesting that the card displayed at the end of the game is not equivalent to a citation in an article, or a citation in a bibliography, as it is too broad to encompass the full requirements of a standard citation, at least in this analogy. Some times that does happen, and the author cites the information that they have, but in this instance the publisher/new developers opted for a blanket statement despite having fuller details. The developers were free to do so, but the question remains: how much credit should the original team recieve?

Also, whether or not an audience actually reads the credits isn' the question. The question is whether or not the original development team should receive a more thorough credit.

For me, an easier way to answer the question is to ask why shouldn't the original developers receive a more extensive credit? What is the argument for denying the original team a more extensive credit?

Personally, at least in this instance, I don't think there is a convincing argument that the original team shouldn't receive a more extensive credit, at least hypothetically. I'm sure we can agree the real word situation has a lot of parts, probably with contracts and all that, but it's an interesting question to consider as more games receive remaster and remakes and all that.

This is quite poor of Nintendo. The remake would not exist without the original game, which was made by people with very specific tasks, such as enemy design, area layout and boss patterns etc. The core elements of these must run all through the remake too, so those who set them in motion all those years ago deserve credit each time they're used.

@Serpenterror what are you talking about? All those games you mentioned have a section in the credits for the original team. Resident Evil 2 & 3 don’t count as they are remakes, completely different games than the OG.

I’m in the camp that feels the credits are good as they are. My argument against the more extensive detailed credit for the original team is because it detracts from the team that actually DID the remastering. The original staff already had their credits/spotlight in the OG game. I think the new team should get the majority of the praise here for the work they’ve done with this remastering, just as the original team has no shortage of praise for creating one of the best games of that era. The original team has received acknowledgment here in a clear concise manner. I feel that works personally. And I certainly don’t think it was some spiteful jab or a low blow from Nintendo/Retro to purposefully not include the original credits. All just my opinion obviously!

@Discostew He absolutely should bring it up. I don't know if he has said more positive things, but he did praise the remaster teams in this very tweet while rightly standing up for his team members. Credits are a big deal, even more so for those who had a smaller part in the game. It's hard work and it should be acknowledged.

Staying silent to worry about his image of a whiner or something would be disrespectful to the other people on his team.

As for the door, why can't the guy who worked on them have a visceral reaction to it, even if he is wrong in many people's eyes? He's probably one of a few who should be allowed some space for that. Hot takes from inexperienced onlookers are fine, but this guy is reacting to his work being painted over.

We can have disagreements on how it was handled and still enjoy the game — I'm LOVING this remaster, even though the little scan rectangles look off to me, for instance.

Also, Nintendo should absolutely force a fix in a patch. This is not only embarrassingly bad taste, but a discouragement to current staff (both at Nintendo studios and Retro). Not a great feeling that your hard work and decisions will be happily overwritten by people doing derivative work (mostly asset artists) and your name will be forever removed from the versions most people play in the future (especially when other studios have not shown this disdain for their employees).

@Gerudo_Guy Just a serious off topic question. But why do so many need to insert "Just my opinion" in everything? Unless one is stating a fact backed up evidence, then it should be obvious what an opinion is.

@aaronsullivan You know how it is these days. Someone makes two complaints, and suddenly he/she is wasting away their days whining over everything.

@SonOfDracula They can't do that! Where else could I post crappy jokes and puns?

@Vexx234 Hahah

@B3RTAY The original Metroid Prime let you fast forward and even rewind the credits, which was a great idea, and should be a standard feature in games. Do you know if the remaster carried that over?

The option to skip the credits entirely is good, too, but sometimes people want to see the credits without committing half an hour of their time (and it's all the worse if they were watching for a specific section or name).

@smoreon I agree. The fast forwarding and rewinding is a great feature that should be copied.

I once made the mistake of thinking that credits at the end of movies were kind of a waste with the advent of the internet and "great" sites like imdb.com (it was a looong time ago!).

But, I know people who work on movies and they and their friends and family wait to see their names roll up. I do it to show my kids my friend's vfx credits to this day. For them, having it follow the movie everywhere is different than looking it up on the internet.

Like movie visual effects work, a lot of the game industry work is underpaid and undervalued, but that credit is a nice reward. Keeping the original staff credited is a small effort.

@GooseLoose1 Must be an old habit, but you would be surprised how many times I’ve seen arguments come from simple things like someone misconstruing one’s opinion as fact and then telling them why they’re wrong. I prefer to nip that sort of thing in the bud!

He has a point, but it’s not worth all the speculation and the inevitable boycott. So I really don’t care.

@Wheatly

Fair! And I don't wanna harp on someone who disagrees. I do think it's a valid concern for the previous team raise and worth discussing, both seriously and informally in a context like this. I'll be interested to see if any changes come, but until then, cheers and thanks for sharing your thoughts!

@Vexx234,

Yes I find it very strange many would read the entire credits for a movie or video game, not that you doing this is wrong.

The OG GCN version running on Dolphin @4K60 with HD textures, is artistically at least, vastly superior.

@aaronsullivan This is making a mountain out of a molehill. The old team was cited. There is no need to patch new credits into the game. The new game was built on the old game, a reference to the old game was given, end of this nonstory.

Usually for Nintendo ports/remasters they usually mention "Original game staff" in Special Thanks without listing those who weren't part of the port's/remaster's work.
This mention of "Based on..." I see no different than that. Other games also had their original staffs mentioned like this, for example Super Mario 3D World + Bowser's Fury and Miitopia (Switch).

Meanwhile, Nintendo did some work in the original LEGO City Undercover and had a section dedicated to credit those at Nintendo who did some work on the game (including Mario Club Co., Ltd, who wre credited in the Japanese version, but not the western ones, for the debugging of that version). For the 2017 remaster published by WB Games, some of those Nintendo names either were mentioned in Special Thanks at the very end or weren't mentioned at all. I particularly remember the mentions of Koji Kondo, Kensuke Tanabe and Satoru Iwata in the 2017 remaster.

this guy sounds ungrateful look it was 20 years ago wen he worked on the original gamecube one but this guy needs to understand this is was full blown remaster rebuilt by not just retro themselves but other dev teams as well and besides we havent seen any other former retro staff complain about not not having their names in the credits of this remaster so i think this guy needs to let it go plus whiny about it is not going to help his argument on this matter.

That’s awful, and I think in terms or remasters-the original game creators should be mentioned first! If I restore a painting of Mona Lisa, I won’t be the original artist and I have not created anything. Improving what has already been there if done well is great work, but nothing compared to creating the full game from scratch. This is a shame!

@RiasGremory disagree, if you improve something, you are not creating! It’s far easier job to upgrade than making the game from scratch so the original artists should be prioritized!

@B3RTAY but Retro team created the game. The latest teams just improved what was there-they didn’t create this experience like the original team. And this experience-while looking great is 1:1 replica of the original. Different case was Resident Evil 2 remake. The original artists deserve most credits, the remaster artists should be secondary.

@Znake thats not always the case im just saying whiny about it is not going to help his case one bit or constantly complaining about something that isnt a big deal and you dont see anyone else who formerly worked on the original prime games making a big deal since they gotten alot of credit on their work on those games alrdy.

I mean I get wanting credit and all that but unless you have an absurd or just plain funny name, it might as well not even be on the screen as far as my brain processes a ton of scrolling names at once. I doubt I'm alone here on not being able to name the assistant backup animator in Mario Sunshine either.

I find this inexcusable. Everyone involved in development should be in the credits, it feels malicious to omit the original devs.

@mereel all should recieve credit, since the remaster is based on a 20 years old game, you surely will be disapoited if you develop a game, work in a movie, and you are credited

absurd that Nintendo have omited all the original developers of this masterpiece.

I hope they just patch it in, anyone who worked on the original in any way should be credited. Not sure the reasoning but really doesn't sound good.

@HotGoomba Well, yeah they are crappy

Man... Even a simple line thanking the original creators is better than nothing at all.

@bonjong23 No, he hasn't. He also had a lot of kind words for it as well and he's entitled to them given that he was instrumental in the creation of the game.

The amount of people who say credits don’t matter in artistic mediums whenever this kind of issue arises is astounding. How soulless things would be if a game simply ended with “Made by Nintendo” or a film ended with just “Made by Disney.”

@johnvboy my friend, I don't think the discussion of whether someone is a troll or not is worth it with some people. You can be perfectly reasonable, but if you don't share some users opinion or even argue as the devil's advocate you are a troll in their eyes. Even if you're just doing so to stay intellectually honest. I just don't think it's worth it to have the discussion as they probably already think you're a troll yourself so what you're saying is just going in one ear and out the other.

As for my personal opinion... This project is on the level of a remake rather than remaster. I think the team that worked on it deserve top billing. But, I can see how the original devs could feel they still deserve to be credited.

@larryisaman I think that is a little bit of a disingenuous argument. Credit was given in the form of a based off the work of the original dev team credit. It's not like that credit list is not available as it's listed on the Wiki, Mobygames and other sources. If someone was curious who those were they can find the information within 60 seconds. It's not like they weren't credited at all.

On a personal level I think the work done on this "remaster" is substantial enough that the new team deserves top billing. But, I personally think the original team should get an extra credit at the end. But, I think the way they were credited here was very respectful.

@johnvboy Well there are benefits to actually reading the credits. For instance if one is interested in a particular part of something, they can reach out to those specific members. Sometimes some of them are nice enough and will actually take a bit of time out their day to talk with you about behind the scenes.

@RiasGremory many people get screwed over and don’t complain so just because others don’t complain doesn’t mean they are ok with it. Now there are younger audiences playing it for the first time and they should know who to give credit to! Once you design a car would you credit someone who cleans it? There is no excuse for not mentioning the real authors who created one of the highest rated games of all time! This is not about whining but respecting authorship. Plus we should really appreciate that somebody stands up for the team when necessary. Today people see bad stuff happen, and do nothing. That’s a terrible behavior. Respect to the original Retro Team! Thanks for creating this Masterpiece!!!!!

This gentleman complains because his name was omitted. Pretty sure the original Metroid Prime had names omitted, but he would not care as long as his is in there. Besides his doors are not part of the game, so what is he complaining about.

@SonOfDracula I've never been this insulted since the incident in Montreal.

@Znake except you are not listening you dont see any other former retro staff that moved on making any complaints about not having their names on the remaster version credits because their letting the young blood get experience on this type of games especially since prime 4 is in development and looks like these new guys are doing a good job and putting any type of concern from the former staff at ease now the ip is in good hands.

I work long days at my job. I'm proud of the work we do. I get paid to do the work. No one puts my name on the work. My salary is my compensation. If you want bragging rights, tag it.

Here we go again!

Wait doesn’t it say based on the work?
What we have here is misunderstanding how credits actually work. 😂

@Scott_PdP Don’t know what your issue is. A credit is such a simple nod to the people who made a project happen and takes no time at all. Why not acknowledge all those involved who poured their heart into a game or film etc.? If you painted a picture and sold it would you not put your name on it? If you wrote a great song for somebody else and it got to number 1 everywhere would you not want songwriting credits to be attached to you? Or would you just not care because you got money for it?

I understand his disappointment, and I can relate to it. But then again this is how the creative industry works, especially if you work with a property you don't own. I never get any credit anymore for the video's, photos or designs i made or worked that are still being reused or re-edited. That's because they are owned by the company i then worked for. But in this case they should have put the credits in, cause it seems to be a complete copy with better visuals and gameplay.

I do not pander to this rubbish, you did a job and you got paid.

No one reads the credits. Put it on your resume and be done with it.

@Vexx234 that’s actually really cool. I’ve never heard of someone doing this - ever - but really cool if people use credits in this way.

Some of the comments here are unbelievably ignorant. Getting your name in the credits is incredibly important. It can prove essential for getting your next job.

@dew12333 If the original staff were asking to be paid again I’d be with you but they’re not. They’re (this dev at least but I’m sure the feeling is mutual across the board) asking for the absolute bare minimum. If you’re going to include credits then credit everyone who made it happen, which in this case includes the original staff since so much of the GameCube game remains here intact.

I don’t understand all the opposition to credits in art. Yes very few people will sit and read the credits but that’s not the point.

@LiamR I don't think it's ignorance as I think a lot of people recognize that. I think people are more wanting the people who worked on the remaster to be properly recognized for their work compared to the group who have already received fountains of praise the past 20 years due to their credits on Prime on the GCN and Wii (who still got credit for their work. Not by name, but as a thank you to the original dev team message). I also highly doubt someone who worked on the original Prime's next job will hinge on getting a credit on a remaster of their 20 year old work... If it does I'm really concerned about their choice of projects the past 20 years 🤔

@larryisaman here's the rub... They kinda did. They got thanked as part of the "based on the work by the Metroid Prime development staff" message in the credits. They did not get credit by name, but the crediting was there. Let's not pretend that message was not there at all! If they received no thanks or recognition I'm with you that's not okay, but that's not what we're discussing. What is being discussed is if that message was enough. And the original Prime credits is very, and I mean very accessible. You can find out who worked on what in 60 seconds.

I personally think a special thanks with a list of names would had been more appropriate. But, then we would then be discussing if that is enough. But, this remaster is more a remake and then were caught in a ship of Theseus paradox. How, much of the original work is still there and does the original person deserve the same recognition if their original work is no longer present (like the infamous doors). That's the discussion we should be having not this mythical idea that the original team did not credit at all... Which is not true as the article has the very credit in it.

People who say that the production of the original ended long time ago - sure, but it's still someone's hard work, crediting it should never become "obsolete".

People who say that the original staff got paid - sure, but recognition of your skills and effort means much to many people.

And above all, what's the harm in including everyone?
You can skip the credits.
The credits can be simply copied from a file
The weight of the credits file is completely neglectable
Ergo
There is no reason not to put everyone in the credits

@LiamR Am I saying that I have no empathy for them? If you've read my comments you'd know this is not my preferred way for them to be credited either. But, this idea that their careers may hang on a remaster they had no involvement in does make me wonder what projects they have worked on between Prime 1 and now. Can you link me to said interviews? Please enlighten me. I want to be corrected because I like being intellectually honest on these topics and while I feel for them, but calling me a chump when I'm just giving my opinion does not speak highly of your professionalism.

EDIT: And I have also had issues with the genius game dev label as well. The idea that the monolithic guy in the chair deserves soul credit for a work. It is one of the reasons I have major problems with Hideo Kojima and the "A Hideo Kojima Games" label. I'm all for making sure the little guy gets their credit. But, you'd rather call me an unempathetic chump eh instead of actually asking me that question.

@liveswired But with no wide-screen support, it looks and feel outdated and squish. Playing it stretch made it worst.

@larryisaman I have to say the credits are not for me, it goes with that stereotypical view I have of people working within the industry that they are very 'look at me', look at me'. I don't find it a very nice characteristic and prefer to keep away from that sort of thing.
I know it a big generalisation on my part but I don't mind either way that they are there, but anyway of fast forwarding or skipping the credits on things have always been a bonus for me.

@Serpenterror I concur. Playing any game in stretch really screws up the game and makes it look ugly in a lot of cases.

@Xiovanni Kinda true but the original team did not want to return to remaster it so why they complain when Nintendo got a new team to do the job? That new team deserve their credit too. Also Nintendo didn't forget the original team either, they include a nod in the credit thanking them for their original work. Their names are not in the credit cause they were not involve with the remaster.

@Martijn87 I really want to see your designs! I love that kind of thing as I have tons of artbooks from small name artists to large published works by Dark Horse. Shame you're not getting proper credit if the work is still being used... then again if this is like the automotive industry those sketch artists are the unsung heroes.

@LiamR I wonder how do 99.99% of people do it. Perhaps a resume, perhaps getting a letter of recommendation from your former boss? Last time I checked there were no credits on the bottle of milk I bought. Or my house for that matter.

@Tober LiamR has rubbed me the wrong way too... but I don't think this response is very fair either. In the creative industry it was very common for companies to ignore and even disregard the talent that made the game. Castlevania and Contra being two very notable examples where we have no idea who most of the dev teams were. Then there are examples like Yoko Shimomura who is best known for her work on Kingdom Hearts and Final Fantasy XV. For the longest time we had no idea she worked on Street Fighter 2 and other Capcom arcade classics because they made all developers go under pseudonyms... which you can imagine an industry which is seen as male dominated how the early female contributors have been largely ignored for those contributions because of those practices. I almost guarantee if we did not have Shimomura's later work with Squaresoft/Enix she'd have been a forgotten contributor and don't get me started on people like Tommy Tallarico. Just YouTube his name, he has become legendary for his lack of giving credit to other people... I'm sure his mother is very proud.

But, I also think other people deserve more credit then they get. Think for example the people at Microsoft who developed Windows 10 and 11... you have to dig through pages and pages of Linkedin pages to get a complete list of who made two of the most important operating systems currently in circulation.

I think there are two very strong extremes we need to be aware of and not fall for the bait and get emotionally attached to a topic and miss the forest for the trees in these kinds of situations.

This is why you keep a portfolio

@Vexx234

this is a user who has disagreed with my OP, then called me a troll and "negative" for defending my original statement, THEN actively tried to troll me for real on other topics. now here they are advocating for no comments at all 🙄

hopefully they don't get their way, because no comments, no traffic, at least in my case and I'm sure others.

just ask IMDb. 😂

@Vexx234,

No issues with the extras on Blu-ray's etc, where people talk about making a movie, but just can't be bothered or interested in reading credits.

@Wexter,

Totally see your and others point of view on this, but for me, I can see why Nintendo did not mention the original team in the credits.

@johnvboy No issues friend! Always a pleasant interaction even if we don't agree.

I'll weigh in: everyone involved in the creation of a work should be credited. the arguments otherwise here in incredulous at best, made by people with NO skin in the game.

@johnvboy

"Totally see your and others point of view on this, but for me, I can see why Nintendo did not mention the original team in the credits."

okay, I'm asking. why did Nintendo not mention the original team in the credits?

@-wc- I agree! Despite the credit that is there is perfectly okay (this is not your average remaster, and is closer to a remake similar to Bluepoint's Daemon Souls remake... who I don't think ever credited Fromsoft or Hidetaka Miyazaki in its credits... from what I can find) I don't see the issue with just having a Special Thanks at the end and listing the names of the original team. Sure the credits would be longer, but I think that is only fair.

They definitey should be credited, considering how much trial and tribulations the original team had to go through to even getting the game concept working...

@Wexter

yeah, I don't really see "shorter credits" as a valid upside to not crediting legitimate contributions 😂 but I definitely feel that many here are arguing that point for some reason!

I'm even fine with completely skippable credits!

the point is:

If you contributed to a game, your name should appear in print somewhere in that game.

The original names should be included since they're the one that made this great game, just make it skippable like normal credits.

@Wexter,

Don't agree with you, we always agree.

@-wc-,

Well this is a feeling on my part, so as to Nintendo's actual reason I can only speculate. But my opinion is that they wanted to give the new team the credit for this remaster, and in some way felt the inclusion of the original team would detract from this.

Only my personal opinion however.

The game we're playing WAS MADE BY THE PREVIOUS TEAM. Yes, graphical improvements and others were made by the new team, but the core of the game was created back then. Not crediting them is just wrong.

Didn't the other Metroid released in the Switch had a problem with credits too?

None of the original assets remain, no reason to credit them. get over it

On one hand they should be included in the credits.

On the other hand it really feels stupid that a bunch of grown-ups want nothing more than to be lauded at…. Even though they already had their piece of praise when the credits rolled after the original version of the game…

@Gerudo_Guy Well to be fair, the main reason the remaster can be acclaimed as a masterpiece is because of the individuals that built it from the ground up back on the Gamecube. Through the planning, concept design, pre-production, writing, modelling, texture-work, programming, etc. The remaster would not exist without the work of the original team and if they made a game that is so good that people want to play it 20 years later then those individuals should damn well be appreciated for such an achievement in some way, shape or form.

@Rika_Yoshitake “No original assets remain”……no? And what about level design? Creature design? Sound design? Character design? Animators, Illustrators, coders, and a looooooooooooooong etcetera that is the base of the game. That’s basically the whole game in which the new team used a fresh coat of paint.

People keep forgetting this is a remaster… not a remake.

If I just paint over blue eyes to the Mona Lisa… should I just put my signature on it, claim it as mine and then say “thanks to the original author whoever he may be”?

@Friendly Yeah it doesn't pay to kick up a fuss too much but if their game is good enough to get such a reception 20 years later, I don't see why they wouldn't be annoyed, especially when other Nintendo remasters/remakes take the effort to credit original staff.

Mmmmmm, i dont know how to feel about this, i mean, even if not seeing your name in something you should have been credited on sucks, this guy whinning makes it all, you know, it doesn't help his cause...
If he just want his kid to see his name in there, put the original game on and be done with it, but we all know thats not what he wants...

I see Nintendo fans defend Nintendo as usual. Considering the game is run on gamecube code it’s fair that they get credit for creating the game in the first place.

@B3RTAY Well they could just have the original credits in an extras section of the remaster. That certainly would have been better than nothing.

Do I seriously have to explain why the “I’m an X at this X job and don’t get or need a credit to my name for making X” is an idiotic comparison to make? I can’t believe people say it out loud.

How sure are we that with a combination of button presses we don’t unlock a secret section in the game with the original credits?

Or maybe there’s a secret door somewhere that’s able to open doom-style.

Why is this only now a matter of discussion when it's been how Nintendo's handled things for years now? It even happened with Retro's last game, the Switch port of Tropical Freeze. I get wanting everyone originally involved to get properly credited, but why is this only now a point of controversy?

@Supaguy my original point still stands. I think the new team should get the spotlight this time for the Remaster. And the old team was still given credit, even if it was just in the general sense.

@Gerudo_Guy hey, maybe whoever wrote the update to this article should put his/her name instead of the original author of the original article.

And then put “This article was originally brought to you by the “Nintendolife team”

LOL … yeah, that’s not how things work.

@YoshiF2….umm so plagiarism is your comparison? 😂

Why is this being normalized? Credit should be given, period.

However this guy is starting to get a little bit whiny, just a little bit.

Oh I wanted to ask. As someone who has never played this game before, would you guys pick this? Or Pokémon SV?

@Gerudo_Guy the comparison is exactly the same. An update by someone else over someone else’s work and then just crediting the “Nintendolife team” in the “general sense” as you put it. 🤦‍♂️

And it’s a basic example, because it seems people doesn’t understand the basic concept of what credits are for.

@Snatcher definitely Metroid Prime. It’s one of the best games ever made. It’s cheaper, looks better and the Pokémon experience is largely the same.

Metroid Prime is unique, you won’t find something like it somewhere else.

@YoshiF2 the difference is the original team still has the original game that they got credit and praise for. I believe the remaster team should get the spotlight here, simple as that.

@YoshiF2 Yeah looking at some gameplay that game looks fire. But I think I’m gonna wait for physical, in the meantime, I’m probably gonna pick something else that isn’t Pokémon

@Gerudo_Guy they can have the spotlight by being first in the credits …. Nothing stops anybody to put the original credits too after the remaster’s team. That’s usually the way it goes in remasters.
There’s no room for discussion. Putting something as skippable credits for the OG team doesn’t mean much for you or for me, but it’s a whole difference for the teams involved.

@Snatcher yeah, I’m in the same boat. Waiting for the physical edition. But you’ll enjoy a lot out of your first experience with a Metroid Prime entry rather than the 10th time with a Pokémon title.

@YoshiF2 You make a really good point! Can’t wait to get my hands on it. And I’m sure Pokémon is fun, but it’s definitely more or less gonna be the same experience just with different characters.

@YoshiF2 there’s no room for discussion? Then what have I been wasting my time discussing this with you for? I simply don’t share your opinion, what a concept.

@Gerudo_Guy so you don’t share the opinion that this could be easily solved with skippable credits including the OG team AFTER the remaster team?

Don’t you think that is just being a contrarian just for the sake of it?

What I mean that there’s no room for discussion is that everyone should be credited for with their names. Not a “general sense”. As an animator myself I would be really pissed if I see the exact same animations I DID in the game that they are using right now and I’m not being credited for, be it 2, 10 or 50 years down the line.

That’s the concept of credits in the creative industry.

If your work is timeless, then it should be recognized as such.

@YoshiF2 I mean my opinion is that I thought the credits as they currently are do suffice, even with the general acknowledgment. Of course they could be easily changed, and perhaps they will, but I just don’t think it’s this travesty most are making it out to be. My opinion is that it detracts from the remaster team, as I stated a while ago, and I’m not alone in that sentiment as the credits exist like this in dozens of remasters. But that’s all, I’m not trying to spend the rest of the night in debate, I’ve got a three year old that will be relentless in the morning lol

@Gerudo_Guy ok man. And I didn’t mean that I didn’t want to discuss it. I meant that everyone should be credited for their work, but let’s not go in circles. I agree it’s the healthy thing. Good luck with the kid and take care 👍

Didn't most of the people who worked on Prime sod off to work for Microsoft? Not sure Nintendo owes them any favours.

Another reason why preservation of the original work of the game developers is important, so that generations to come will know of their hard work and that it won't be snuffed out by corporations who don't care.

Metroid is owned by Nintendo. The entire Metroid Prime game is based on Nintendo's own work - Retro Studios reimagined it into 3D (and did an exceptional job of it to boot) but Metroid is entirely Nintendo's.

Besides, pretty much nobody that worked on Metroid Prime is still at Retro Studios. Comes across to me that the work that followed perhaps didn't live up to the high bar set by Metroid Prime - Can't really think of why else you'd be looking back so many years after a credit.

Anyway, the team were credited. And Nintendo is consistent too. I just finished Donkey Kong Tropical Freeze on Switch again last night, and the credits start with a shout out to the Wii U dev team.

The original team is credited at the end. If this is about having your name in credits to show to potential future employers, you’ve had 20 years to show them the original game. Presumably you’ve found another job in that time. And if not, and you’re looking now - just show them the credits to the original game. Job done.

Isn’t this standard for most remasters/remakes? Why is it only becoming an issue now?

@Jireland92 No it’s not and even if it had been there’s been plenty of bad “standards” in the world that have been subverted and changed later; and this issue been brought up plenty before, it seems you weren’t paying attention?

They should have included an option in menu to the effect of "View original credits".

I agree with some of the above posters that credits are kind of weird and unique to movies and video games. I can easily imagine a world where that didn't develop. Nothing else is like that. Radio stations don't tag on the credits of songs. My car didn't come with a list of everybody who helped design and build it. My receipt for a meal at a restaurant doesn't have the name of everybody in the supply line who contributed.

Maybe they should, I don't know. But it's far more for the employees (who were already compensated for their work) than the consumers (who by and large don't read the credits, even when they are spruced up). And I'm speaking as somebody who's been credited in a few games. It doesn't have to be a big deal.

Especially in the information age where it's super easy to look up any of the information you want, it's really not necessary. I'd rather the programming resources went elsewhere.

@FantasiaWHT

Plenty of books and articles include citations and bibliographies and acknowledgement sections, and music releases typically issue production/writing credits. Most of those examples fall under the scope of entertainment, but not all. If you wanna get weird and broad, the US Supreme Court likes to cite the constitution and older legal documents when they issue their briefs, verdicts, whatever.

Also, I think part of the argument here is about what would be the best practice, as opposed to what the practice currently is. For example, it might actually be worthwhile to credit every assembly line worker at the car manufacturer. I think the lack of credit people receive for their work is more a result of an imperfect system rather than a reflection of who does and does not deserve credit.

In this instance, and specifically in regards to the arts--which I would argue includes video games--I think the best practice is to err on the side of over crediting. While it's true that it's easy to find the information on one's own, I also don't think it would be too difficult to include the info on the release.

I do think there are probably gray areas, especially with a remake, but as others have pointed out thus is a remaster and pretty much the same game.

@DashKappei well I’ve played plenty of remasters and remakes and a lot of them didn’t credit the original team. There we’re a few but those were from games that were more upscaled ports.

It’s also a total non-issue. This guy is complaining he didn’t get credit for working on the game but he did. In original release back in 2002. They got credit then and it’s something to put on their resume.

@WatsonWatson is it a remaster though? a remaster is something like Skyward Sword HD, a touch up and "remastering" of the original game. This has entire assets, code, particle effects completely made from scratch to recreate the original game updated for a modern era. And before someone says no a remake is like FFVII Remake or Resident Evil 2 (2019)... That's more a reimagining marketed as a remake. This is closer to Bluepoint"s Demon Souls or Shadow of the Colossus and no one calls those remasters despite being the same game.

I think my biggest Bugaboo is people have no idea the differences between the terms remaster, remake and reimagining and that's almost by design in this industry as they use all three interchangeably...

@Wexter

Definitely agree on your assessment of how those words are used interchangeably, which definitely doesn't help. Some of the gray area on who to credit and who not to credit stems from that for sure. That's another reason why I would err on the side of more expansive credits in a lot of instances.

I think even understanding the different types of work that go into a remaster/remake/reimagining might hinder a general consumers ability to differentiate between something new and something old. I definitely don't know how it works. But I do think it's clear, at least on the surface, that this version relies heavily on the original.

Given the video game industry's penchant for re-releases, anniversaries editions, and however else they repackage their games, its easy to envision a future that includes a reimaging of the 2030 remastered version of Metroid Prime. There is a slight ship of theseus feel to the debate here. For all those reason, I would reiterate that I err on the side of more credits, but I get the other side of the argument. I think video games are art, even if they're commissioned art, and I think the debate here highlights some of the issues that arise when commerce and art mingle. It gets complicated!

It seems a tad whiny and overly bitter, but I agree full credits would have been even better.

I understand the desire of wanting to be credited for something , however not only were they already recognised since 20 years ago in the original projects and trilogy on Wii, they are also still acknowledged in this one, just in a much more brief way. This kind of stuff is more of a courtesy than a mandatory thing and it was still done. I honestly find it way more insulting that some people are comparing the new work with just a "fresh coat of painting" as clearly a lot of work went with this project that goes way beyond that. It's even worse that there's people that suggest that not only should they include the entire credits, but put them first. The game is owned by Nintendo, they don't work there anymore and now's the time for the people that worked on this to shine.

I also find it funny that not one person mentioned anything about the credits until they did and it's suddenly a big deal. Personally I think that nowadays people just search for excuses to get their pitchforks and go on witch huntings. Apparently there's people that read this stuff and yet not one was bothered by it until now.

Honestly, I feel more like these guys wouldn't ask to be mentioned if this wasn't successful and they just want to benefit from the attention that the game is getting. That wouldn't be bad for me if it was the original team doing the work again or participating somehow, but again it isn't, they already had literal decades of acknowledgement and they are still acknowledged here even if it isn't on the format that they prefer.

@Wexter I understand that in the entertainment industry credits are a thing and I have nothing against them in the slightest. But in this specific case of Prime Remastered it's impractical and impossible to get right. Let me explain.

I think just copying the credit lists from Prime 2002 and Trilogy 2011 and pasting them in Prime Remaster is a no go. You cannot just do that without consulting the individuals themselves if they want to be credited for this project of whom many probably did not know it existed.

• Names might have changed, through marriage or otherwise
• People might choose not to be credited on a project they did not work on
• People might have passed away, in this case a family member needs to approve and a special note should be made in remembrance.

This means to track down all individuals of the 2002 & 2011 release to ask for consent and check if credentials are up to date. Not just retro studio's, but all the localization offices, musicians, QA testers, etc etc etc.

It will be hundreds of people, going back as far as 20 years. It's a task impossible to get right. You'll end up insulting someone. And how long do you spend doing so? Would a game be released without having a complete list? And what you'd do with the people you could not find? Leave them in / Leave them out. There is no good answer.

I think the solution Nintendo opted is probably the best one. People that are interested can see the credentials of the original games that are just a google search away.

I mean there’s no reason why the original credits should have been omitted is there?

@Tober this is probably one of the first times I've been genuinely wow'ed by a comment!! A lot of this is very fair and actually made me re-examine my stance! Bravo!!! Very Bravo!!!

@Gerudo_Guy I am not sure if you know what a remaster is. It is building on the fundation of the old code, just like editing an atricle. Almost all of the original work is the base of a remaster. So why is the one plagiarism and the other not?

@MajorTom I was responding to a statement that literally said, to update an article and put one’s name INSTEAD of someone else’s…?So I’m not sure you understand what plagiarism is. This is an entire team doing a remaster, and still giving credit to the original team. Either way, it was only said to make light of the debate, and I’m not interested in continuing it further personally since my opinion in the matter isn’t going to change.

@Gerudo_Guy The original statement also mentioned adding “This article was originally brought to you by the “Nintendolife team” " or did you miss that part?

@MajorTom nope clearly not, but they still said replacing one name with another sooo?

@Gerudo_Guy Well the old names also are now replaced with a general team credit right? If the first authors were part of that mentioned team then it pretty much is the same is it not?

@MajorTom difference is one person wrote the article, not an entire staff. Honestly I don’t even know what you’re arguing at this point. I know what a remaster is, this is clearly not plagiarism, not even close. I don’t understand what point you’re trying to prove here, you think this credits issue is liken to plagiarism? I strongly disagree. My opinion is that the credits to me are fine as they are. Obviously many disagree. You’re free to do so as well. But I’d like to stop talking about it now, it’s unnecessary at this point, as I’ve said all I can on the matter.

@Gerudo_Guy So if the original article had more than 1 author and just change the set to a mention of a team while you fully name the editors it is fine. It only matters if it was a singular author to you. I gotcha.

@MajorTom I'm simply saying it’s a lot easier to name one person as opposed to a whole team, so I can understand why they took the streamlined approach. You’re free to infer whatever else, that’s your choice.

Normally I would not bat an eye but the context is important. This is one of the most influential games in Nintendo's history. The success of the remaster is two fold:

1. How well did the new developers bring back the title into the modern era. Example: Art, 3D, performance, audio, coding etc.
2. How well they honored the source material / original game.

Given how the remaster so closely follows the original design... it should be clear that both sets of developers should be credited.

I don't believe this is a mountain out of an mole* hill situation... but it just seems short sighted. With so much positivity around this title, I think Nintendo can do a quick PR to address it. It's not an unreasonable request.

Easy PR fix. Just update with a video clip of the original credits and make it a menu option. Boom fixed!

I wasn’t let down by them not being included in the credits by name. Shame.

Samus is under fire! She sends an emergency directive: Join the fight

Google Metroid Prime credits and problem solved.

@Tober Is all that really a thing though? What about SNES games on Switch Online for example? I imagine none of the credits were changed in those games? They count as re-releases so surely in those scenarios they would have to be updated to reflect current standings of those credited?

They could always just add a disclaimer that all names credited were correct as of the release of the original game etc.

@prismt Hell yeah man. Who cares who made the art you enjoy? Get rid of credits altogether, writers should stop putting their names on books and painters should leave their signatures off of their paintings while we’re at it because who cares!

I read about half these comments then gave up and scrolled to here, haha! Guess that says something about me. Well, personally, I think the original staff should still he credited, but a generalized one-liner’s better than nothing. Still, I’m really enjoying this Remaster, so thanks to everyone, past and present.

I do like to stick it out with credits in games and movies, mostly because I have a strange feeling of completion.

@larryisaman Classic Switch online games are dated at the time they where released. e.g. Mario64 is still dated 1996. People that are credited on those games where fully aware of that. Metroid Remastered though is a 2023 game. Most people that worked on the older games might not even know this project existed. Can you then just use their names without consent?

As an example imagine that you worked on the original back in 2002 and see your credits on the 2023 and notice its still the ex-husbands family name from which you brutally divorced 15 years earlier. I'm pretty sure there would be a twitter rage following "Why did Nintendo not contact me before they use my name. I did not know this project even existed!"

My argument was, that it's so hard to get spot on without insulting anybody, that the option Nintendo took with the general message is probable the lesser of two evils.

@Tober I really don’t think this is an issue that exists. As I said, even if it were to be some kind of problem it would be circumvented by a disclaimer acknowledging that the credits are lifted from the original 2002 game and were correct at the time of publishing, just as a re-release emulation of the GameCube game would have the original credits intact. If a divorcee had a name change in the 20 years since the game launched I don’t think their world would end because they were credited with their old name.

Why anyone would ever have an issue with being credited again for something that they were already credited for in the first place is beyond me anyway. I don’t think this has anything to do whatsoever with permissions and more just Nintendo/Retro simply saying “these people don’t work here any more and had nothing to do with this version” and called it a day with the “based on” line.

@larryisaman You are making several assumptions. Like it would not be a big deal to people if their name would not be correct. Or people would not mind their names be used without their consent (because that's my point) in what is a new 2023 project release they might not be aware of existed. The point is the people working on the original where aware their names are being used on that version, no matter when somebody would decide to play it.

I would personally not like my name being used on new projects without my consent. There where hundreds of people involved in the first 2 games. Assuming they are all ok with using their names without consent has no base.

@Tober The entire point of this whole controversy is that the original team aren’t being credited for the original work, original work that has either been straight up used in the new game (animations, code etc.) or concept art that has been used as a basis for new models etc. Whether those members know a remake/remaster is happening is irrelevant- all they would be doing is repeating credits for work that they already did.

I don’t understand why if they were to release a direct emulation of the original (without the original members knowing) with the credits untouched as many emulated versions do, that would be hunky dory, but apparently using those legacy credits in a version that still uses a lot of that work would be problematic? I don’t see it. Even if it were the case, it would surely be easier to just include the credits and then remove/change names should people have a problem with them (again, why you would have an issue I have no clue).

@larryisaman Read my comments again please. The 2023 release is not an emulation. if Nintendo would have emulated the 2002 or 2011 release it would be the same game, for which the team knew they where credited beforehand including their credentials verified. Essentially just a re-release. My point (again) is not to use names without consent of those individuals for a new project which is the 2023 release. This means you have to get this pixel perfect. Your comment to add everybody and then remove people afterwards that have a problem with it is even worse then not asking consent beforehand. The damage is then already done.

An oversight perhaps, but a travesty??.

@Tober,

Awesome post, and some great points I had not even considered.

As I have said before I feel the exclusion is more down to the work that has gone into this remaster, and listing those involved, rather than intentionally leaving the original team un credited.

@Tober Right. But what I’m saying is, any credits in this kind of project still pertain to that original game that they were credited in. Nothing has changed. The original served as the entire basis and inspiration for the remaster. They would be credited for the work they did back then, nothing to do with the new project. It would be exactly the same as crediting them in a direct re-release of Prime because they’re not crediting them for any of the new work whatsoever.

Metroid Prime: An Alan Smithee Game

@Wexter thanks for your interest. Idon't have any designs online yet. I'm starting a new studio with my wife and our site is going to launch in March if everything goes as planned. I'll send you a link when it's live.