Soapbox features enable our individual writers and contributors to voice their opinions on hot topics and random stuff they've been chewing over. Today, Kate discusses her love/hate relationship with remakes...
There is nothing quite as emblematic of our lost and distant childhood than video games. They are one of the few toys that both children and adults alike can play with and remain socially acceptable, so they serve as a rope tying us back to the past. When that rope is cut — when we are unable to play the games from our past because of decaying technology, or prohibitively expensive consoles — it can feel like we've lost a part of ourselves.
It's not surprising, then, that the trend in games for the last couple of generations or so has been an endless churn of remakes and remasters. Publishers have their own reasons for wanting to revisit successful titles with a proven sales record, but many of us are complicit in wanting to see new life breathed into beloved classics. We want to stay where it's comfortable, and we don't want to lose what we know and love.
At the same time, it brings a bunch of feelings bubbling up. There's the feeling of infantilisation, as if you can only be appeased with endless remakes of Ghostbusters and Top Gun, like you've been stuck in arrested development for the past couple of decades and the media are encouraging us all with a steady stream of Beige Pablum For Cranky '80s Babies. There's the feeling that you should be consuming something a little more challenging than a game you completed when you were ten. There's the worry that we're going to be stuck like this as a society — that all the multi-billion-dollar companies are going to realise that remakes have a much greater cost-to-profit ratio and we'll never get anything original again.
Recently, we've seen two extreme sides of the remake debate: The excitement for the possibility of another Wind Waker/Twilight Princess HD remaster, and the grimaces and eye-rolls in response to the second full-price remaster of The Last of Us in under ten years. The reaction hasn't been unanimous in either case, but that's the gist online. The reactions are quite different, as you can see from some of the TLOU reviews:
"The Last of Us Part 1 is an entirely unnecessary remake with gorgeous graphics that only make its dated gameplay stick out even more." — Diego Perez, Attack of the Fanboy
"A completely pointless remake of one of the best games of the last decade, except with only half the content and at double the price." — David Jenkins, Metro GameCentral
"At a more competitive price point, it'd be essential – as it is, it's a pricey upgrade on a bona fide classic." — Sammy Barker, PushSquare
Now, to be clear, TLOU's remake (which came out this week, to a chorus of very-positive-but-occasionally-muted reviews) has been largely well-received, and arguably has good reasons to exist, not least for providing a polished starting point for newcomers. But it still feels wild that Nintendo, on the other hand, seems to have an infinite well of goodwill when it comes to remakes, and that many people are actively clamouring for them ahead of each Direct.
There are a few reasons I can think of. Despite the influx of 'Deluxe' re-releases of Wii U games this generation, Nintendo doesn't do that many remakes, really, and the time gaps between the original and the remake are usually a lot bigger than, say, Skyrim. They're also not over-saturated in the market — it's been an age since the last proper Zelda release, and it was universally beloved, and most of Nintendo's big tentpole games take years in-between sequels.
It wasn't hard to play The Last of Us on PS5! But playing any Zelda that hasn't already been remade for Switch is a whole quest, unless you've already got the setup
And yes, we've had the Link's Awakening remake since then, but that proves my point — over 20 years had passed since the Game Boy Color DX version added colour five years after the original monochrome release. Skyward Sword was a decade old before getting an HD facelift last year. It's much easier to love something that you aren't tired of having constantly shoved in your face. It doesn't help that not a lot of people are really nostalgic for The Last of Us, either, because it really hasn't been that long.
And in spite of its reputation for giving you dozens of different ways to buy and play games like Super Mario Bros., when it comes to making its back catalogue easily available, Nintendo's history is patchy at best. The Virtual Console service no longer exists, so Link's Awakening (the Game Boy version) wasn't playable on Switch in any form until Grezzo's remake arrived. N64, SNES, and NES games are being drip-fed to us through the NSO subscription, which is essentially a rental service. Nintendo obviously doesn't take kindly to you emulating its games, so if you want to play, say, Wind Waker — and you don't already own it — your choices are forking out full price+ for a GameCube copy on eBay, finding a good deal on a Wii U and nabbing a copy of the HD remake, or emulating the game and hoping that Nintendo doesn't find you and fine you.
To put it another way: if you want to catch up with Wind Waker, you're going to have to pay somewhere between $50 and $100 for the privilege, possibly a lot more. You might as well wait for the inevitable remake for Switch, because you already have one of those, probably. And, for the most part, we let Nintendo get away with it, because it's built up a reputation as a benevolent Zelda-monger — despite its sometimes hostile efforts towards gamers wanting to play older games.
The reason people feel like The Last of Us remake is pointless is because it largely is. It wasn't hard to play The Last of Us on PS5! But playing any Zelda that hasn't already been remade for Switch is a whole quest, unless you've already got the setup. If I were feeling really grumpy about this, I'd say that that's the point. It's a lot easier to get people to fork out $60 for a game when you've purposefully made it hard to play otherwise.
But I'm to blame here just as much as anyone. The recent news that Wind Waker and Twilight Princess might come to Switch is exciting, even though I owned the Wii U version of the former and I've never played more than a few hours of the latter (and I didn't really enjoy it, either). Why is that? Why do I look at some remakes with disdain, and others with hearts in my eyes? Why do we let Nintendo get away with draconian business practices as long as we get a Zelda game every couple of years, new or old?
Nostalgia is a powerful drug. A drug that costs me 80 Canadian Dollars each time. None of us want to cut that golden rope that connects us to our past, and game companies know that. Should we boycott the remakes? I don't know! I probably won't! I don't think we should be satisfied with the remakes — after all, I'd much rather have a new experience, or a better option for backwards compatibility, than a remake.
But since Nintendo seems disinclined to preserve its stellar gaming history, I guess we'll just have to make do with remakes.
Do you agree with us that remakes are the best we can hope for from Nintendo in terms of providing easy access to older games? Or should we hold them to higher standards? Tell us in the comments below!
Comments 192
They'll keep selling if we keep buying. Which we will, because we're Nintendo fans.
Yeah because the switch should have a GameCube disk drive built in, right Kate? Seriously... 🤦🏻♂️
It's all about how it's monetized, really. A good service will always make paying for it the best alternative.
On the other hand, as we've seen with NSO, that's actually a worse way to play your old game than dumping them and playing on emulators. Nintendo's drip-feed approach doesn't help.
Proper remakes like Link's Awakening are different, as they are different enough from the original game to, at least for me, warrant purchase.
Having recently started replaying my original Wind Waker through the magic of dolphin, I can't really see why I'd ever purchase that, or Twilight Princess, on Switch unless there's substancial improvement made to the games.
Crossing fingers for next gen being backward compatible with switch physical games.
This is the truth yet Nintendos our besties so no one wants to admit we’re being screwed.
Meanwhile the people we love to hate Microsoft is not only giving backward compatibility but increasing resolutions and frame rates while improving loading times all for free.
Xbox Series has shown the lengths to which backwards compatibility is achievable, even via digital means.
Nintendo has A LOT of catching up to do.
I will absolutely take a version of a game fine-tuned for the console I’m playing rather than low-rez backwards compatible title.
@Effortlessgamer I’d say this writer has the right spirit but the quality of each article is never that stellar. Nintendo will either come up with a very Nintendo solution or no solution at all. Time for Nintendo customers to face this truth. We have these, we at least get something. It’s cherry picked but it’s alright.
IMO the more options to play these games across systems, the better. Sometimes I don’t feel like pulling out my Wii U or GameCube. Just want to play WW while I’m in bed.
Capitalism.
*Requisite more words.
@ketrac does playing on the toilet count as improvement?
I want Twilight Princess on Switch and I'll happily pay $60 to get it. Feel like you're "getting screwed" by paying that? Easy. Don't buy it.
Apples and oranges comparing the Last of Us situation to Zelda remasters and remakes. The big problem with the Last of Us is that it's a remake of a remaster of a game that came out less than 10 years ago AND lacks multiplayer, for $70. At least the Zelda remakes and remasters add or change things like vastly improving the triforce quest in WW HD or adding a standard control scheme and the ability to play on the go with SkyWard Sword HD. Or in the case of Link's Awakening, complete remake with great visuals and more buttons, so you're not just restricted to using two items or whatever.
I love backwards compatibility. My PS2 plays PS1 games, My Wii plays gamecube games, my WiiU plays Wii games, Xbox360 plays Xbox games. For someone like me who has many games across multiple generations of systems it is a welcome feature. Sadly seems to be far less prevalent these days.
Seriously Nintendo, just how much money are you missing out on without a Virtual Console model of some sort.
@Ocaz Once I get my Steam Deck, this will be attempted
@Effortlessgamer no but there should have been digital versions of many games compatible with Switch with no extra charge, with Nintendo you have to buy digital the same game twice even though it is on the same account without discount, all Wii U ports etc. Microsoft does it right with Xbox and X360 games compatible with newer consoles and a unified catalogues like Steam. I had to buy twice BOTW, Pikmin 3, Captain Toad, NSMBUDX, MK8DX, Super Mario World 3D and many more Wii U ports of indie games even though they were on the same account.
I'm willing to buy porta and remakes for the convince of playing it on the console that my friends have. I understand the concern for quality but frankly I own so many of the originals that there's nothing at stake for me. The only one I didn't really appreciate being full price was Skyward Sword - I feel it was a prohibitive price for people who wanted to revisit it when the game isn't nearly that old.
@john_lennon999 You didn't have to, you chose to.
Nintendo shareholders thank you. You're one of the reasons they refuse to give us a proper service, because you paid for it.
Customers vote with their money.
Nintendo sets a high bar for their remakes. When they do release remakes, they're expected to be different in very significant ways. Link's Awakening had a gorgeous new look with new content. Wind Waker HD had a streamlined major sidequest, major visual upgrades and improvements and additions to optional content. Twilight Princess HD was able to be played with a gamepad, semi-portably. And Skyward Sword HD took the motion controls of the Wii game and flawlessly implemented them into a controller-only scheme. Ocarina of Time 3D and Majora's Mask 3D also got significant upgrades, though I'm not as familiar with those.
Add to that that Skyward Sword, Link's Awakening, and the two N64 ports are playable on the go.
I’ll take Nintendo’s way over Sony’s but both need to learn from Microsoft in this regard…but also improve it as the way M$ did it limited what they could actually do.
As someone who collects and plays games from many different generations, I want an all in one system from everyone. Would be a dream.
@john_lennon999 "digital versions" is not the same as backwards compatibility.
How far backwards does she want to go? Does she want a Nintendo 64 cartridge slot? Gameboy? A holder for a deck of cards?
This "article" is the most 1st world, entitled whinge I've read in a very long time.
@KryptoniteKrunch
Wait, The Last of Us Remake on PS5 has no multiplayer?
@ketrac I’ve got mine finally I can attempt this and let you know how it goes. I have an appointment after work.
@westman98 Nope. It's a full price cash grab.
I would be happy if Nintendo offered Zelda The Wind Waker and Twilight Princess on their Switch VC. There would be less of a need for yet another remake in this case.
Remasters give Nintendo a chance to add extra features and gameplay that might not have been available originally. For example. If they introduce gyro aim to the older Zelda games, then remasters beat backwards compatabilty every day of the week. Besides...how on earth would you fit a SNES cart into a Switch!?!?
I’ll buy Wind Waker HD again. It and Twilight Princess are the past obvious Wii U ports that are yet to occur.
This is a “both-and” sort of thing to me, not an “either-or”.
I love that I can play Ocarina of Time on all modern home consoles relatively cheaply and easily. And I still payed $40 for the 3DS remake for the improved visuals, and QoL improvements like not having to pause the game every 3 seconds in the water temple to change boots.
Ideally we’d have an easy & cheap way to play the originals on modern hardware, AND a regular stream of remasters. But like Kate said, the remasters probably wouldn’t sell as well if we had easy access to the originals. 😩
I think Nintendo's approach is fine because the Switch started from scratch. When Super Switch Pro 2 Advance DS U arrives in the future I would expect full backwards compatibility with Switch games such that the focus turns to games that didn't come to Switch.
I'm super excited for the possibility to replay Wind Waker HD and Twilight Princess HD on the Switch and it would also save 2 more games from the Wii U's library. Hopefully Xenoblade Chronicles X comes next.
Regarding The Last of Us Part 1, it's a good thing for PC owners as the original and remaster didn't come to PC but for PS5 owners its existence is questionable due to the multiplayer cut out and The Last of Us Remastered (PS4) being playable via backwards compatibility.
Microsoft I feel are missing a big trick by not releasing a Gears collection. While they've done a very good job with backwards compatibility, the original 360 games' multiplayers are overtaken with cheaters and that's something which can't be solved without doing remasters on newer hardware.
Having BotW, Twilight Princess, Skyward Sword AND the Wind Waker all on one console is worth paying for. Especially if it's portable.
...beats paying a subscription for those N64 games
I would love ports/remasters of Wind Waker and Twilight Princess on Switch or the next Switch. Like a lot of gamers I never owned a Wii U and missed out on those.
Watch them needlessly change the cartridge type of the Switch 2
It won't happen, but I'd love to see Nintendo take an approach to backwards compatibility that is similar to Microsoft's.
Absolutely will by WW & TP again, though.
there are millions who have never played the older zelda games i see no issue with remakes..
“Endless” is most definitely an exaggeration. Maybe we should talk about Skyrim, which, again, is getting rereleased.
If Nintendo's next console isn't retro compatible with the huge library I have, I'll only buy it 4/5 Yeats after release, that is, if it's worth it. It's so much money spent to have a solid library with both new and retro titles. It's insane to think they'll try to release everything again for their next platform. It doesn't make any sense. But if we keep buying everything they release, they'll never change
Xbox retrocompatibility is just wonderful!!!!
@Effortlessgamer
In the article mentions Nintendo's rather mixed history when it comes to making their back catalogue available (such as the virtual console being gone and its replacement basically being a rental service)
In regards to the backwards compatibility part it feels less a request to make the switch backwards compatible and more a look at backwards compatibility in general vs remakes, more of an "ideal world" situation (unless im getting the wrong idea)
The idea of game preservation is still a big talking point, especially with the upcoming closure of the wiiu and 3ds eshops and with it the last remnants of the virtual console. And even with digital games a system can still be backwards compatible using an account system, for example you could have bought banjo kazooie back on 360 and still have access to it on the latest Xbox just by logging in to your account.
Did none of you had a discman? To play Wii disc in the switch on go won’t be pleasant. With a home console backward compatibility is easy done. With a hybrid not. Gameboys and DSs had backwards compatibility also Wii and Wii U had it.
So if switch 2 doesn’t have it you can cry again.
You can probably but a Wii U and Windwaker and twilight princess for $50-100.
You say this, but then for the last two years have been begging for wind waker and twilight princess ports. Also the last of us remake might just be the stupidest game ever made.
I mean....I can understand this argument for the Wii U era (especially since the original Twilight Princess is already available via the built in Wii emulator) but when the Switch uses an entirely different style of physical game playing (cartridges vs discs), can you really blame them for porting them over like this?
Pushing that gripe aside, I feel like it doesn't really matter whether or not it's the 'same game' so long as the remaster itself both makes the game look nicer and, most crucially, fixes glaring issues with the originals. Do you remember how angry people were with SS HD after E3 2021 when it seemed like there wasn't anything new to it whatsoever? Then they randomly uploaded the trailer that actually showed off the new QOL improvements and everyone loved it (it's ultimately what pushed me to buy it in the end).
Regardless, it'll be a way to play games previously home console exclusive on the go and that's still pretty awesome.
The Wind Waker has previously released on the two worst selling Nintendo consoles. I'm all for more people experiencing it, and I think the HD version is the definitive way to play it. Twilight Princess is a smaller update, but due to few people owning a Wii U, there is a whole new generation of Zelda fans that haven't played it.
@GrailUK
While i do love the remasters and what they bring i feel like remastering a large amount of their previous library would be a major task.
Thats why i enjoyed things like the Virtual console and sonys "psone classics" line back on the ps3/psp/vita, as much as some would criticize the aspect of having to buy older games i do feel like i prefer that over not being able to buy the games at all. (though services can do both, Gamepass gives you a "buy and keep" option, nintendo lets you buy the DLC included on its own but sadly not the games), it also feels like outside of the online the NSO service lacks certain features which have become common with retro games on modern systems such as button remapping and screen options.
Hoping the switch successor is fully backwards compatible that way if these games do come to switch then they will be widely available for a good while (hopefully even further)
I don't like how the article is phrased as either "I'll buy them all" or "I'll buy none of it" situation. I don't think it's that binary. I for instance got Wind Waker HD back on the WiiU because I loved the QOL additions, it looked gorgeous, and I didn't own a Gamecube anymore. Similar reason for Link's Awakening on the Switch. Yet I skipped on Twilight Princess and Skyward Sword HD because what the new versions brought to the table wasn't enough for me to justify a purchase. I don't think it's that complex. Why is it so hard to just not buy it? We're not hostages to nostalgia or our wallets, and if someone is, I think this is less of a Nintendo issue and more of a you issue.
@Aerona its not like the ds could actually play 3ds games if it weren’t for the notch 🤷🏼♂️
@Tountoes I think it’s a Nintendo issue when the competition is basically making backward compatibility standard. At some point the fan base will grow tired of their practices. Switch might be the golden days of Nintendo. But wii u wasn’t that long ago. Arrogance can hurt a company and that’s a Nintendo issues.
@Mgalens yes but retro collecting is an option and a (admittedly expensive) hobby of mine.
But what are we actually talking about here? Backwards compatibility from what to what?
Again, were not talking about virtual console or digital versions. The headline specifically says "backwards compatibility". That involves hardware.
My argument is "what's the solution?"
It's alright to have an opinion, even if it is a daft one. But yeah, what's the solution? Make every console backwards compatible to the one previous? The one before that? The one before that? Where does it end?
And in this specific example she's mentioned Wind Waker on GameCube. So we shouldn't have a remake or remaster, we should have a console that plays physical copies of 20yo games as well as modern games?
Come on.
I don't fault Nintendo for not having their entire back-catalogue available for purchase, though I do feel like backwards compatibility for at least digital purchases should be standard going forward. Unless the architecture for their next system is something really out of left field, it shouldn't have much trouble running anything that works on the Switch's fairly generic mobile chipset. I'd like to see the return of the Virtual Console, too, but offering their retro library through a subscription makes way more business sense. As for remasters, I'll gladly pay $60 to have my old favorites look as good as they do in my memory, as long as they're done right. There are occasional ones like Twilight Princess HD and Xenoblade Definitive Edition that make some improvements, but also lose a bit in the conversion.
Eh who knows. I'm happy when they come. Even though I have WW/TP on cube/wii/ and WiiU, I still want them to come to switch. Why? I couldn't tell ya other than wanting to play them on my current console. The wiiu is hooked up so i really have no excuse. I just love playing the latest on my latest I guess. Big whoop wanta fight abottitt?!
Switch remakes seem a bit more welcome because you can play a former console game in handheld form or vice-versa. That said, I don't need a remaster if I have the original. I have all my old consoles, so I'll just play the original unless there's a significant QOL upgrade. I'm fine with the Wii U remaster of Windwaker.
The Wii was backwards compatible to the Gamecube.
The Wii U was backwards compatible to the Wii.
The handhelds were basically all backwards compatible to the predecessor. The DS even had a second cartridge slot just for that.
The Switch isn't backwards compatible, but I also don't see how that would be possible. There is no way the Switch could emulate Wii U games.
Also some "smaller" problems like possibly needing the Wii U Gamepad, needing the Wii pointer feature (for Wii games), needing a disc drive...
Imo. Nintendo has been pretty decent with backwards compatibility, I just don't see how that would even be possible for the Switch.
It was also possible to play Twilight Princess on Wii U without buying the HD remaster...
@Kirgo our digital games from the Wii u could be available since they have our account information. Sure the disks no. But the digital Wii u games yes.
Their next system needs to be backwards compatible if it's going to stand a chance. I don't know how Nintendo plans to sell their next system as successfully as the switch, but backwards compatibility is definitely a step in the right direction. I didn't buy a PS5 because there were a bunch of PS5 exclusive games for me to play off the bat. The fact that I could play PS4 games, and some of them would even be enhanced by the new hardware, was a major selling point for me. The same can be said for the Xbox series X; I bought it because it enhanced some of the games that were available on previous generation consoles, even some 360 games, but Xbox is a powerhouse in backward compatibility, even without those enhancements.
Of course Nostalgia is a powerful drug. But games that were on Nintendo's legacy consoles aren't the only thing I want to see on the Switch. I also want to see games that have never been released in North American until now(Such as Trials of Mana), and games that were never on a Nintendo system until now(Final Fantasy VII-IX, Disgaea, Devil May Cry, Crash and Spyro, and a boatload of SEGA Genesis games that weren't even on the original Wii Virtual Console).
It's not just about nostalgia. It's also about trying out games I have never played before. (I got to play the Darius games on the Switch, and I have become a fan of Darius Twins and Darius Gaiden)
@Effortlessgamer That’s obviously not what she’s suggesting. Wind Waker HD was, and still is, available digitally for Wii U, and could be made available digitally to Switch users who already own that version. That’s what backward compatibility looks like. Digital PS4 games, for example, are playable on PS5.
The question is whether there’s a limit to how many times people are willing to buy the same game, and also whether it’s somewhat predatory to force them to if they want the game on modern hardware.
Switch can't be BC, obviously, due to the radical departure from previous disc based PowerPC architecture systems. So... this feels like a moot argument to make.
That said, I'd rather have remasters any day of the week. I value the jump to HD, the critical fixing of mechanics like adding non-motion controls and full camera control in Skyward Sword, or the upcoming Metroid Prime which will surely add gyro aiming and dual analog controls.
BC is fine if the games are recent and already HD and already offer gyro aiming, etc. But for sub-HD games from a bygone era? Ya. No thanks. I'll take the remasters.
@Doctor-Moo
Yeah as you mentioned BC also includes digital purchases.
Though i feel like the wii and wiiu era did make it difficult to future proof the games due to how often the base controller was changed.
This is one of the reasons why im happy that the switch supports many different controllers since not only does it allow people to play games how they want (which is also good for accessibility since it allows for adaptive controllers as an option) but it also means that the games themselves are more adaptable (a direct BC version of WWHD would be difficult due to gamepad being an option)
I guess I'm part of the problem, because I'd like to see more Zelda remakes. Let Grezzo go wild on the Oracle games and even the or even Zelda 1 if they feel so inclined. Feel free to build sequels to originals like A Link Between Worlds, if the team wants to go there. The old games are nice, but I tend to prefer the 3D and HD remakes over the originals. What they need to do is stop making Super Mario All-Stars remakes. The Wii version and the Switch versions are emulation cash-ins that deserved more of the Digital Eclipse treatment than a lazy port job.
I would buy WWHD and TPHD on Switch despite owning them on Wii U because the portability adds so much value that they’re worth buying again (and often times in the UK you can find Switch games on release for around £35 which isn’t bad at all even for re-releases).
I understand why GameCube games and beyond aren’t being offered on NSO; they still hold up so well that to do so would eliminate a lot of desire for remasters a la 3D All Stars/Wind Waker HD etc. That’s fine, but then…do the remasters. Give us Thousand Year Door HD, Chibi Robo HD, physical copies, digital; whatever. I don’t mind paying a premium to have these games on modern hardware, just give us the option in the first place.
I think it's OK to remake classics. The GCN is old and backward compatibility is here up to N64, not sure the switch has the power to emulate a GCN properly maybe.
Wind Waker HD for instance is much better than the GCN version technically speaking, not a small upscale, it's really something that can please all generations of players far better.
We won't get a free GCN wind waker with NSO+..it's just won't happen IMO.
@sixrings
Apart from the problem that this would cause publicity problems since it would mean Nintendo essentially screwing over physical owners (you know people would interpret it that way).
And even if you solve the Gamepad problem, which isn't impossible.
At the end you would still run into the issue, that the Switch probably just can't run Wii U games.
The hardware architecture is entirely different so you would need full hardware emulation.
To run a game through hardware emulation like that, you need much more powerful hardware than the original.
Is the Switch that much more powerful than a Wii U?
I doubt that it is enough.
3DS games would be possible, but that opens the question about the second screen again.
Nintendo sell their games as if they were music albums, they do remasters, special boxes, etc. If you are a fan a legendary music acts, doing new vinyl or cd prints of old albums at normal price is pretty common. I don't see why games can't do that, it's a fan service thing anyway.
@Doctor-Moo once again, digital copies and backwards compatibility are NOT the same thing.
Further, they couldn't just allow the Wii U port to work on the Switch. They'd have to change things to compensate for the lack of a second screen.
If the game has to be modified in order to work properly on a newer console, then by definition, doesn't that mean that in it's current form, it is not compatible with the Switch?
I think remasters and remakes can be great even besides just having a game on a new console. QoL tweaks can help a game play a lot better and new graphics alongside it being a new big release can help expose the game to a lot more people than backwards compatability would. But yeah ideally Nintendo would have a much better system for old content as people have been saying for like a decade. Not every game will get a remaster or remake so there needs to be a better system.
Nintendo has goodwill because they still continually crank out tons of games every year. Nee must have ps5 games are very thin and boring.
@CharlieGirl It's only BC with 63 OG Xbox games and they aren't adding anymore. In comparsion, there are 93 NES games on NSO, 72 SNES games on NSO and 20 N64 games on NSO. Nintendo is not perfect, but at least they didn't cut it off altogether for no good reason. Microsoft deserves more criticism for such a weak og Xbox BC imo. 360 is great tho.
Pfft no. I’d be more inclined to agree if you were talking about remasters, but in both cases it’s more likely to be much cheaper and readily available than buying 2nd games from Nintendo consoles of yesteryear.
I'm only getting TLOU for my not-Switch. Could care less about the PS5 portion of it. I've long wished for a single console to be able to play any and every game I've ever enjoyed without piracy or having to mod my system. I've settled for the reality that the Steamdeck will eventually replace my 8 year old PS4 and I'm fine with that.
Nintendo tho, is a mixed bag. I DO NOT want a subscription only Access for my beloved 8, 16 and 64 bit Nintendo classics. Even with my dusty trusty Wii U, I still have full access to all of them and WW, TP, Mario Galaxy 2 and Xeno X amongst others. Every time they add the Switch library with hotness like Pikmin 3 or Xeno Chron 1 HD, I love it and hope they continue.
I’d rather play Wii U Wind Waker and Twilight Princess more than their GameCube originals. The HD graphics and quality of life improvements just trash the originals that backwards compatibility isn’t worth it in this case.
I'm not sure I'd call the Zelda remakes "endless," considering there's only ever been... lemme count 'em... exactly 1.
But, yeah, remasters can only go so far and backwards compatibility is ideal. But is this really a bone to pick with Nintendo? Their platforms are so wildly different from each other that backwards-compatibility is effectively impossible. Even ignoring the (not insubstantial) issue of media format, a Switch simply cannot play 3DS games (no resistive touch screen) nor WiiU games (no multi-screen functionality--which also affects potential NDS/3DS compatibility).
Take it up with Sony, who could've made the PS4 and PS5 fully backwards compatible with all PS1 and PS2 games simply through software emulation, but chose not to.
Or, I guess, start lobbying Nintendo to abandon their present and historically very-successful hardware design philosophy to focus on making much more conventional consoles instead.
Honestly, more remasters of old games would be a step up for this generation. Their neglect of older games has been absolutely shameful. Every single handheld before the Switch along with the last two home consoles had been backwards compatible. And the 3DS, Wii, and Wii U allowed you to actually purchase retro games.
At this point, I wish Nintendo would just put every game up to GameCube and DS on the eShop(not just NSO) and remaster their Wii and Wii U games because they can't be emulated on Switch. I'd also like to see see at least every console library up to Wii be put on PC. Old games don't sell new consoles, so why not make them more broadly available? I doubt Skyward Sword HD and 3D All-Stars sold a lot of Switches.
What good reasons are there for TLOU remake?
@OldManHermit Backcompat is still prevalent. The Xbox Series and PS5 play Xbox One and PS4 games. The Series took it a step further by making a lot of older Xbox games compatible. It's really just Nintendo who isn't bothering anymore.
@ketrac yes sure, I refused to do it for a long time, but this year I travel all the time and I wasn't home to have my Wii U so "I had to". But still we could have some kind of sale as Virtual Console games from Wii to Wii U.
@Kestrel The Switch absolutely could play 3DS games. The Switch and 3DS both run on ARM processors, so Nintendo could get 3DS to work via a hypervisor. Or they could make a USB accessory with trimmed down N3DS hardware that includes a wireless controller with a touchscreen(which they should've done for the Wii U).
At the end of the day, you really do vote with your wallet. For example, I want to buy TLoU:P1, but I don't support selling it for $70, so I'm waiting until it's $40. Legend of Zelda: Link’s Awakening Remake was great, so I bought it. Let's Go Pikachu looked like a cute but pointless upgrade from a franchise that refuses to get with the times, so I didn't buy it. Honestly, I'm surprised by how many people I see in these comment sections that buy games simply because they were made by Nintendo, Sony, or Microsoft. It's like, you know you have your agency, right?
Right now I physically own PS2/3/5, PSP, 3DS, GBA, Wii U, Switch, and an XBseries just for emulating everything I’ve ever owned in one place, pre-7th gen. At this point I’m in a position to deny remasters and ports, since I almost never use the switch handheld. I was seriously bummed out by Link’s Awakening remake being $60. (I bought it at $30)
Sorry, I say it all the time but I’d really like Nintendo to put together a team to whip up handheld style Zelda adventures in the $30-40 range between tentpoles.
@wuntyme8 ... wun can only hope.
@john_lennon999 We could, and I think we should, but people who double dip make sure we don't. That sweet money.
@NeonPizza yes Nintendo should remake a order Legend of Zelda game, i know everyone is demading Twilight Princess/Wind Waker on Switch, but Nintendo should give Legend of Zelda fans like us, a chance to modernize a older Legend of Zelda game by remaking it(why not give us a remake of Oracle of Age/Season or even Adventure of Link?)
@B_Lindz yeah… and I have sadly supported this practice. It started with MK8D…..understandable given that it had improved battle mode and two items to carry. Super Mario World for the extra content…... But had to get DKTF for chill mode. Normally I would have passed but I suck at the game, so I wanted to try it with new mode. Bought Captain Toad again to play with a friend. At least I got that reduced used at GameStop. Pikmin 3 was on sale…. Hard to pass that up. Then bought both Xenoblade Definitive and NSMBUD on sale, thankfully deeply discounted. Crap, I dropped $300 on games I already own…
@_fatto_katto_ I really wish old games were as accessible as music, movies, and books. I can walk into any gas station and find a copy of Back to the Future. It's infuriating that a lot of old games aren't as accessible.
Yeah, I'm really pissed I can't use my Wii U disc on my Switch. That's a practical solution.
Backwards compatibility is something that companies should do as much as possible and with GCN on, it's partially impractical for that to happen on Switch.
I want Oracle of Seasons and Ages remade on the Switch just like they remastered Link's Awakening. Come on, Nintendo, take my money.
@TheSaneInsanity lol sadly there is little hope in me, sane wun.
… Wun can only hope.
The thing about backward compatibility, in the unique case of Nintendo, is it locks down design. In order for Wii to be backwards compatible with GameCube, you needed a set of GameCube controller ports. In order to make Wii compatible with Wii U, it needed Wiimotes. If they were going to continue backwards compatibility on Switch, we'd need a Wiimote, a second screen controller and a disk drive. AND all those things would have to interface somehow with the Switch Lite, if you wanted THAT to be backwards compatible.
In order for Nintendo to move forward the way Nintendo moves forward, they have to leave the past behind.
@Effortlessgamer
It is the same.
It is not importan if it is digital, if you can play a Game from an old System on a new one, it it backwards compatible.
It is not importan if it is accomplished through build in Hardware, a Wrapper or Emulation.
The PS3 was backwards compatible to the PSX through Emulation, early Models through Hardware and partly Emulation also to the PS2.
Look at the PC Market, you can play nearly every Game ever made from DOS on via Emulation, Windows Games often out of the Box.
Put your Disc in, rip it and go on without or buy it over Steam and Gog.
Blizzard made even patches, so you can play your Game without Discs. Once installed you can use your Starcraft Folder from 1998 on Windows 10.
There is absolutly no Reason why you can not keep your Purchases from the Wii U on the Switch or a newer System, beside that Nintendo wants to see your Cash again.
The Switch is a big hit, so Nintendo is not under Pressure to change that Behaviour for the Moment.
But the World doesn't stand still, even Sony is breaking off its Limit, offering Games on other Systems.
Horizon is even aviable DRM free.
@Pak-Man This and Quality of life evolves over time as well so certain gameplay ideas fall to the wayside.
The 3DS remakes are a good example, it is easier to port these games over to the switch than rerelease the N64 versions.
the HD ports are touched up and more compatible with modern hardware etc.
There is pros and cons for both argument and nintendo did do a decent effort with their handhelds to be atleast compatible with the previous generation.
I haven't touched my Switch in 7 months. I turned it on last week just to cancel the automatic renewal of Nintendo Online. The possibility of Wind Waker and Twilight Princess coming to Switch - neither of which I have played previously despite being a fan of Zelda-style games - is the only reason I haven't dumped it on Ebay.
Don't know why I have my hopes up, because I've been disappointed by all the Zelda games that have come the Switch. Breath of the Wild is overrated IMO (I like the more traditional dungeon design of previous games and hated the constant weapon breaking and replacement), Link's Awakening I enjoyed but it absolutely did not justify a $60 price tag, Skyward Sword was still far too awkward to play despite the "button controls" (where analog stick waggle took the place of Wiimote waggle) and it really did not justify a $60 price tag for how little was done to upgrade it (and don't get me started on them tying a QoL feature to a freaking Amiibo).
Okami HD is a better Zelda game than any actual Zelda game on Switch and it's $20.
If Wind Waker and Twilight Princess come out at $60 each, that is some major BS and I probably will just dump my Switch at this point.
When it comes to the discussions of remakes (and remasters), the justification of remaking a game largely depends on how much a game can be changed to fit the modern formula. Link's Awakening, a game that was previously widely available and now starting to dwindle and become just a remake, has every justification of getting such a remake. The game is fun, but you have to admit that it did NOT age very well. From the slow text to the limited control scheme to the hardware limitations, Link's Awakening is only fun if you have the patience. Now, with something like Twilight Princess HD, sure. It's not very easy to justify that remaster if it barely did anything useful to upgrade it; to add insult to injury, longer load times. Then we have the middle of the spectrum, Majora's Mask 3D. Controversial, yet also beneficial.
@CharlieGirl it's easier for Microsoft to do since they've been using the same size discs on all their systems. Nintendo on the other hand...
Honestly even though I would probably buy a Wind Waker release just because I love the game I don't know when I would get around to playing it, I have not had an interest in replaying games I have already played a dozen times in quite awhile,
I find new experiences to be far more entertaining and that is coming from someone who replayed old games a few times a year in the past.
@Azuris
No, backwards compatibility is not the same at all to digital distribution of media.
Especially when talking about GameCube era games as Kate references in this article.
To be clear, we need to identify what's classed as backwards compatible. Yes the Xbox can run physical and digital releases of games from a previous generation. That is backwards compatibility. It's also hardware, not software emulation. Right? So the hardware can A. natively run the same programs as the previous gen and/or B. Has an optical drive that can read disks from the previous gen.
You can't however, have a Switch that's backwards compatible with Wii U games. The hardware is completely different, even before we talk about the fact that the Wii U has a second display in the game pad. And that's just 1 generation. Kate is talking about compatibility with 20 year old games that predate their digital remakes and counterparts. That's 3 generations of consoles.
Of course the Switch is capable of playing previous games, but not natively in their current form. Wii U games, for example, would need to be modified to be compatible, removing game pad functionality, etc. Which means the games would technically be a port, which is not the same as backwards compatibility.
@ketrac This? You called that a cash grab? I have even more news for you buddy. You seen the brand new juicy Splatoon 3 videos lately?(Try to imagine Nintendo is making the game like a cake) Ok, no matter how good this game looks, they still haven't done any big significant changes except only the small ones like mechanics, weapons, and online modes. They slap a 60 dollar price tag on this game that is mostly online with no couch co-op or any other offline options except single player story and your training area/turf war stages. We are already paying for the online part of the game every YEAR after purchasing Splatoon 3. Finally the cherry on top, before even releasing the game- they mentioned a later add on DLC which "you" will also be paying just like Splatoon 2 DLC. Now, like you were saying? Splatoon for example DEFINES cash grab except for it's Wii U version of the game...
What you have to keep in mind is that several of us skipped the Wii-U, some even skipped the Wii, as they weren't happy with with the console's controls.
Port releases are actually very ideal in the second half of a console's lifespan; as they allow a constant revenue while they prepare to transition to the Switch 2. The current Switch only has 4GB of Ram, which is also a big factor.
I just hope the Switch 2 is backward compatible, and can be played on the go.
I wouldn't bother to buy it, if it didn't have a handheld mode. Also, there is no way games that only need up to 4GB to run would be made to run only for the Switch 2. You wouldn't be completely cut off by not upgrading at first release. There would probably be up to 2-6 year span, till they stop making parts for the original Switch. Nintendo probably wasn't sure that they could go up to 4-6 years, so they introduced the newer repair plans that Customers can buy into.
Wii-U users always argue they want something new whenever a Wii-U game gets ported. They also love to point out that the Switch owes it success to the failure of the Wii-U. Which is the primary reason of these ports; to re-release games from a console with a very limited number of customers, to a console with a more vast number of customers.
I will buy all the Mario, Zelda, Kid Icarus, Sonic, Pokémon, and Golden Sun ports that they re-release.
Soapbox: Endless Ports Are A Poor Substitute For A Steady Output Of Original Games From Nintendo
@tektite_captain i definitely agree with that.
My counterpoint to that is the Zelda HD remakes look and play a LOT better than the originals do.
You may buy them but I won't.
Kate, delete this, it makes no sense.
I forgive the Switch for not having bc since it was a radically different format but I’m not buying its successor if it doesn’t have it.
Nintendo has been for a very long time and will continue to be a toy company. It's far past time for everyone to get over it. They make money moving product at premium prices and repackaging cheap tech. It won't change, and they will have an iron grip on their brands for all time. So if you like Zelda, these are the breaks. Also, they aren't hunting anyone down for emulating. They go after distributers. So long as you aren't being a clout chasing fool, they'll never hassle you for playing Wind Waker on Dolphin.
People say switch versions of games add the ability to "play on the go". But they don't add this feature to the games, it does not require any labor or additional code. This is a feature of the console, not an upgrade to the game.
@tektite_captain
For Twilight Princess, I can definably agree with that. Depending on the game, any thing less than 25-50 is robbing the Devs.
Twilight Princess "on the go" is easily worth 70-80, 50-60 is almost a steal.
Hope they sell em separate. I only want Majora"s Mask and Wind Waker.
@AstraeaV if they’re sold separate they will still be full priced. You’ll just get less for the same cost.
@tadams587 I think Nintendo themselves said these ports take 6 months. So six months to port a game for full price or a game like botw2 which will be 6 years in the making for the same cost. Sounds like I’m getting ripped off on that port.
If these Zelda's are full retail price they need to be a bundle.
Reasons what a few of them said^ some people are getting tired of remasters.
I got the Skyward Sword when that was out haven't played but did the Wii version back in the day.
@sixrings
No, you are literally getting BOTW2 as a steal if Nintendo is selling it for 50-60, you are not getting ripped off on a port. I would pay at least $80 for BOTW2. The only justification for Nintendo to sell BOTW2 for $60, is if it has an expansion. With the expansion putting it over the price of 60, it isn't the same price as ports.
Also, you can always wait till the port goes on sale, which it is more likely to do more than botw2.
My Wolf Link Amiibo does not have any real use until Twilight Princess gets a re-release. I will not buy the Wii-U.
I am waiting to buy Golden Sun Games for either the 3DS or Nintendo Switch.
@tadams587 im really confused yeah looking forward to BotW2 i would pay full price.
@tadams587 WiiU great for Wii discs very cheap 2nd hand best pad ever made and great for homebru however i don't do the later myself.
I have this dandy thing called a Personal Computer.
I guess I don’t understand the disdain for remakes because, to me, I don’t think it distracts from the amount of games Nintendo releases. I think it’s a way to inflate that number, sure, but I truly don’t think we’d have any more original Zelda games if it weren’t for Skyward Sword or Links Awakening.
@ketrac
That's a pretty terrible deal. Last year's Skyward Sword HD was overpriced but at least it retains all the content from the original Wii game.
Hard to believe Nintendo is considered "expensive" company when Sony is pulling off moves like this. Combined this with the recent PS5 price increase and it seems like Sony is trying to kick the price-conscious end of the gaming market out of their ecosystem.
@Effortlessgamer How many cartridge slots are there on a Wii U? Somehow it managed to run hundreds of games from past generations. Oh that's right, you're being deliberately obtuse.
...I'm sorry, but isn't this the website that constantly posts articles to the effect of "these games deserve remakes/ports/whatever"? You don't get to add fuel to the fire and then complain about it.
That said, video game companies care nothing about their history unless they can make money from it. If you want real backwards compatibility and preservation of old titles, just emulate them.
After buying my first 3DS game in years which is probably also going to be my last (also I'll probably never get around to playing it) a few days ago, I started thinking about something like this. Specifically, Nintendo is going to remake and re-release the same popular games for ages, but what about the games that I loved and still own? In just the past few years I've had a number of tragedies occur... the charging port on my DSi is broken and I have be very careful if I want the thing to charge. I'm already on the 3rd battery for my 3DS. The disc drive on my American Wii died, I can't get my Japanese Wii U to recognize HDMI cables, and of course I have lots of discs and downloaded games for both that aren't compatible with the other. I have a pretty fantastic library of Nintendo games that are getting harder and harder to play as time goes on. I would consider paying money again to have a lot of those games on my Switch, but because they're not Mario or Zelda games it's not going to happen. How many years do I have left before I have to start worrying about what will happen to all of the games on my Switch?
I don't really understand what all the negativity in the comments is about here. I liked the article.
Overall I feel very similarly to the spirit of the piece — I would like easier access to those previous generations' games that I've already purchased and can no longer play.
Does Kate need to have solutions? No, it's a soapbox article, not a technical presentation. Nor should writers of opinion pieces be subjected to constant put- downs, rude remarks, and arguments just because they have a different view or you think it's not practical.
Is this how you respond to hearing an opinion in person? Do better.
@Jiggies SIIIIIIIIIIIGH!
That's not "backwards compatibility" that's emulation. You have no idea what you're talking about and that's not what this article is about either!🤦🏻♂️
But sure, I'm being obtuse. Good grief, chief...
"the last couple of generations"
You are aware that both the Wii U and 3DS was fully backwards compatible with their previous generation console?
Yes you could actually play both the Wii version and the Wii U remaster of Twilight princess on the the Wii U without hacking the system.
In addition to that both the 3ds and Wii U had pretty decent Virtual console support even if I wish they would have added more games.
But here's the thing, you cannot really say that they purposefully left backwards compatibility out to make money on remakes and remasters when it comes to the Switch.
There are 3 typical ways to implement backwards compatibility
1) Emulation
2) hardware support
3) Compatibility layer
The Switch's vision is to be a hybrid console, and it's getting rather old.
So here's why it didn't have backwards compatibility
Emulation) It takes a very long time to develop an emulator and emulating something like the Wii U would just not be possible on the Switch. Even something like Wii and Gamecube seems borderline impossible with good compatibility with all games.
I guess that's why Nintendo's latest emulators rely heavily on game specific patches and realtime hacks to get the performance up.
Hardware support)
This one is easy, you think the Switch would be portable if they built in WiiU in it?
Compatibility Layer)
Also easy, Power PC -> ARM (two different architectures)
When they decided to create a hybrid system I guess they decided to drop PowerPC in favour of a more power efficient architecture more suitable for portable play.
So to make a long story short.
I am pretty sure they dropped the backwards compatibility due to it not being possible with the vision of a true hybrid form factor.
a necessary sacrifice.
It's just now that mobile chips are starting to get powerful enough to emulate newer systems at good speeds.
Removed - flaming/arguing
@Jiggies resorting to personal insults? Really?
Kate is not talking about emulation in this article, which I'm assuming you haven't actually bothered to read. She's talking about backwards compatibility, not emulation. Emulation provides a way to play older games on a different system, yes, but it's functionally different to true backwards compatibility, which would rely on hardware or a compatibility layer.
For example, if you run a ROM on a laptop, you're not making it "backwards compatible", it's not suddenly a Nintendo laptop. You're just telling a machine to run a program that can read the ROM and output the data accordingly. Functionally, the laptop is still a laptop. It's still incompatible with Gameboy games. It just has a program that can run the code from a ROM file.
As a programmer for over 15 years, I really don't know how much clearer I can make it; emulation is not true backwards compatibility.
And as I've mentioned several times, Wii, Wii U and DS games are all fundamentally different to the Switch and games would need to be heavily modified to work on Switch, either via emulation or otherwise.
Can the Switch run GameCube games via emulation? Yes. Obviously. But that's not what the article is about.
@Effortlessgamer
Hmm, I see both your points and you are both half correct.
Here's how I see it. and it's quite simple
If you can take any game that you own from a previous generation and play it on a new console then it's backwards compatibility.
Regardless of whether it's a compatibility layer, hardware support or emulation. But it does not have to be limited to physical media.
I would very much argue that the PS5 digital has PS4 backwards compatibility even though it does not take disc's.
Because it plays all my previously digitally bought PS4 games and I can just redownload them to the PS5 and continue playing.
However, reselling us individual emulated titles is not backwards compatibility. You cannot put just a few Gamecube titles on the shop and say: Look the Switch is backwards compatible with the Gamecube.
If they released the entire Gamecube library playable on their online service. Then I suppose you could make an argument that that service enabled backwards compatibility.
@Effortlessgamer idk how you have so much patience fighting with these people lol
They all think backwards compatibility is just Nintendo holding hostage a magical button that just activates every past generation of games on Switch easily.
Switch is not a powerful hardware like Xbox nor is Nintendo an endless pit of money like Microsoft that can invest in prospects that will bring them nothing but losses. You have to do extensive work on emulation to properly make 3D era consoles work on a damn mobile chipset, even with something old like Gamecube. You cant just easily emulate something like Wii U games, you have to work and test basically every damn game in the catalogue and do extensive work on emulation of each individual title while also removing gamepad compatibility……and people expect Nintendo to do all that for free? lmao Delusional
@DaniPooo I can agree with that.
One other thing I'd say that's slightly off topic, but it's makes me kinda mad that Nintendo could (and will one day) just turn off nso services and we will all lose access to these games.
@Itachi2099 right? Oh well, takes my mind off the "emotional mess" that I very clearly am 😁
@Effortlessgamer as an add on it would be an instant buy for me 😂
How is it possible that backward compatibility could apply here? We are talking about a portable console from 2017 vs a disc based 2001's home console.
That's just a dumb statement
@Effortlessgamer My thought exactly, and even if we take the WiiU instead of the cube, it is also a disc based home console, impossible to compare it to the Switch. It's totally different for Playstation who always had the same disc "size" (format would be wrong) frome de PS1 era to this day.
By the way the PS5 SHOULD could be able to play PS2 and PS3 games natively (or at least PS2, even if PS3 emulation came a long way)
Putting aside how in the world would you be able to put gamecube and wii u disks inside the switch, barely 4 million people bought twilight princess and wind waker hd on wii u, they would literally be brand new games for more than 100 million switch owners
It's not for you it's for the people who never experienced it (and in the switch case it's a lot of people since it's madly outselling almost all other Nintendo consoles) Why this excuse is ok to defend Naughty Dog but not Nintendo? Weird double standards as usual to favor an american studio over a japanese one...
Some of you keep mentioning Xbox BC and that's nice.... but that ain't portable now is it? And I want certain games physical.
I've no problem with these games coming to Switch but they should be budget prices or compilations. There's no reason to be selling them individually at as full prices games but we know Nintendo will do that and thats why I just emulate their older titles.
For balance TLOU is even more ridiculous at £70, especially when the same game is already playable on PS5 at 4K60FPS
@Effortlessgamer
I agree, I sort of hope that it won't come to that.
My hope is that they'll provide a solution for that so that you at least get to keep access to the NSO classic titles even if they drop the online play feature.
But if Nintendo is planning to continue the NSO model on their next system then I see no reason why they won't keep the servers up for a very very long time. Especially if their next system will be a backwards compatible hybrid (Which I sort of think it will be)
Then they could just continue supporting the same apps on the new system and it might be at least 10-15 years before we have to worry about them pulling the plug.
Otherwise they could just provide a free update to these apps that will check if you are a member NSO member once and then unlocks the app permanently.
I guess this would probably be provided sometime after they announce that they will shut down the servers.
Or they could be a bit more Nintendo and sell us the permanent unlock for a small price.
But I really hope that won't just pull the plug and make all the titles inaccessible on the Switch.
@carlos82
Personally I think it depends on what they are selling us.
If they sell us an emulator bundled with a rom and nothing more then I think they should drop the price.
Because then we only get an old game and nothing more.
If they remaster the game and add new features Like Wind Waker HD then I have no problem paying the full price.
They provide us with a fresh new way of experiencing an older title. And they put a bit of effort and money into making it.
If they remake an old game like Link's Awakening then I also have no problem paying the full price.
I mean in some cases it's like a completely new experience.
The Last of US - Part 1 I think I would pay the full price for if it was released on the PS6 and there was no other way to play it on that system.
Yes the graphics looks really great.
But I don't think the PS4 pro version of the remaster looks bad.
Actually I am getting confused when I see this game.
It sort of looks like they have made a very impressive remaster of the original game in a much newer version of the same engine as the original game. rather than recreating the game from scratch like a proper remake.
I say this because it sometimes looks too similar, like they have pulled some assets, animations and voice clips straight from the original game. Is it really a remake or is it a very impressive remaster of the remaster?
I hope that we eventually get some answers on that
I feel that the "remake" of this game came a bit too early.
Had they waited for next generation then they could have really taken it to the next level and "wowed" people more and would justify the full price.
@CharlieGirl How does Nintendo had anything to learn from Xbox there? Since the Xbox brand existed, it always used 12cm disks format (DVD and then BluRay) making it realy super easy to make the games usable on the next consoles.
How was Nintendo supposed to do that with the Switch? putting a freaking DVD player on the back of the console? Besides, Nintendo always tried to be backward compatible when possible : GBA played all GB and GBC games, DS played GBA games, 3DS played DS games, Wii played GC games, WiiU palyed Wii games (and GC with modding), I really don't see how they could do any better
@F_Destroyer "I really don't see how they could do any better" <- Can't wait to hear why having 0 content i bought from previous digital stores on Switch, is the best thing they could've done.
@Jumping_Dead Having to buy them again digitally is NOT backward compatibility.
Backward compatibility is using the old physical media on new hardware.
@WoomyNNYes that's definitely something they need to do. If they want the next console to be even close to this successful, they'll need backwards compatibility. It would be even better if accessories like controllers, as well as digital downloads transfer over.
@Effortlessgamer then don't buy digital. Physical copies make more sense anyway
@F_Destroyer What? What are you talking about? Having your console be backwards compatible with the digital catalogue from the previous console is not backwards compatibility to you? Dude... other manufacturers have been doing it for quite some time.
I bought a couple of ps1 games on my psp... and you know what? i can download them again on my ps4 now for free. If having access to things you already bought in the past on a new console, is not backwards compatibility, i dont what your talking about.
"But we'll buy them anyway". Nah, I am good with the originals. Specially since they butchered Wind Waker's art style, in my opinion. I'd rather play the originals or my dumped ISOs on PC.
Jeez...reading this comment section is depressing.
Lots of whining about an article that dared to criticize Nintendo in any way.
I love Wind Waker, one of my favorite games of all time...but I see absolutely no need to rebuy it (also, I did not mind the Triforce quest to be honest and kinda prefer the original art style).
If you want to buy the remake, that's great...but don't start hating on someone who has another opinion just because you think Nintendo is your buddy and you have to defend him.
That just makes you look like a cringy fanboy.
Fully agree, but the fact people will buy 80$ ports means Nintendo will keep making them and that the Wii U will be their last backward compatible system.
"Nintendo doesn't find you and fine you"
Well, that's not true is it?
"draconian business practices"
What, Nintendo kill their staff if they make a mistake?
"Nintendo seems disinclined to preserve its stellar gaming history"
What's their line on this?
Otherwise, yes, I'm looking forward to remakes of games I like that I cannot play on the Switch, others I don't care about.
I'm sure that there are Tweets praising the TLoU remake as well
As for a Virtual Console, yes I think there should be one, but some sort of centralised multi-platform independent of any one publisher. Let another company manage NES/SNES/MD/GB/GBA/DC/GCN, etc. Then that could be ported from one platform to another.
But even then, a release would have a muted response of everyone complaining about content and presentation
No we most certainly will not. I will download them on my hacked Switch system yes, but I already own all these games.
@Jumping_Dead I don't quite agree. Having a digital catalogue is note the same as accepting older physical media. Being backward comaptible means that it accepte older media by definition. Having Earthbound on the Switch is note backward compatiblity with the SNES, being able to use the original cartridge from back in the day would be backward compatibility.
@F_Destroyer
You are focusing waaaay too moch on discs an especially disc sizes. If that was the only issue than worst case would be that you have to plug in another disc drive, not to mention digital games.
What is important here is hardware architecture, so what type of CPU are you using? X86? ARM? Something else? Among other things.
Then there is also different operating systems, though that is more of a solvable problem.
And that is just me listing the simple to explain problems you might have when trying to run a game on a different system.
So no, a PS5 could not natively run PS3 games as they are completely different systems and that is exactly why the concept of an emulator exists. Emulator are there to make exactly this kind of thing possible, using software on a system with different hardware.
Though for an emulator to work you need hardware that is one hell of a lot more powerful than the other hardware you want to emulate.
Which is why I am pretty sure the Switch could never emulate Wii U games.
@Kirgo Of course I get that, but emulators are extremely perfomants nowadays, having a PS2 native emulator on the PS5 would be extremely easy, for a matter of fact, the european PS3 used software emulation for PS2 support (the first PS3 model), and it ran like a charm, even back then. So not supporting PS2 DVD on the PS5 is a choice of Sony, they'd rather sell them again.
I was just saying how stupid this article is, having WiiU backward compatibility on Switch is not an option at all, you'd need a DVD player, it's just stupid
You've played only a few hours of Twilight Princess?!! Shame on you.
Having backward compatibility on cross-physical formats isn't stupid, it's not possible. Unless Nintendo released an external DVD drive to run these games on the Switch you're going to get digital only versions and they're going to sell them obviously. There's no way to prove otherwise that you own the physical version.
Remasters and remakes definitely have their place and purpose. That's not to say they don't sometimes over do them .
The Switch has 112 million units sold vs wiI u which had like 12 and gamecubes 22m.
So for many switch owners a remaster version will be their first go at Wind Waker, due to low sales of its previous consoles and paasage of time( the wii u release was almost a decade ago). You're really more likely to have bought/played it before if you're on this site than the average switch owner.
My younger relatives aren't interested in playing older games The graphics, controls and sometimes ive found they can't understand now archic game design and logic.
The remasters/remakes do make it more accessible to them in ways beyond its available to play on the platform.
@Roibeard64 People forget that remasters/remakes aren't intended for people who played them prior. They're meant for a new audience who has never experienced them before. People get so mad, but there are millions out there who never played these games before and this is a great way to experience them for the first time. I think remasters and remakes are fine if they are done well.
I love Legend of Zelda, I've mentioned it before, if I could get every Zelda game to date on the Switch, that would be awesome AF.
So uh I guess I'm part of the problem.
@BinaryMessiah Extactly. Like I was looking forward to that KOTR remake (which i think is in limbo now)because I didn't have a way to play it back in the day but heard so much about it. Bought it on switch but without the nostalgia and the memory muscle of how PC games in that genre of the time worked nd the time to invest in it really, I've not been really been able to get into it.
@Roibeard64 KOTOR was an Xbox game first. I remember renting it and playing on my Xbox 360 and never finishing it. I was a PlayStastion kid and only had a PS2 during that era. I then later had to use texture mods on PC to complete. It hasn't aged all that well which is why the remake might bring a whole new audience to the games. I bought the KOTOR II remaster on Switch a bit ago and it hasn't aged well either. I own both on PC and OG Xbox and these remasters are the best way to play so far.
@Lony85 You're not part of any problem. Remasters and remakes are meant for new audiences, not old ones. I don't how much fans complain to developers about something. They're not meant for you. That's not where the money is for these types of games. However, they're great if you want to replay something you're fond of but want the convenience of a newer system or better visuals and improvements. I think remasters/remakes are getting better over the years and the quality and care are improving.
Does anyone remember the cheap and dirty ports of the PS3/X360 era? That was a plague that's mostly gone. The "HD port" plague. Literally, nothing but a stretched 16:9 image with texture filtering thrown in. A full-on remake of something back then was a pipe dream. Everyone's got it good now!
@F_Destroyer
Well if the discs are the problem, you could just plug in a suitable drive. Most people here seem to be talking more about at least getting the digital games, in which case discs are irrelevant.
Though, as I have argued before here, I personally believe that owners of the physical versions would be angry about that.
But however we may look at that point, it would still not change that the Switch almost certainly can't emulate Wii U games in the first place.
Emulators have poor performance pretty much by definition.
A PS5 could obviously still run PS2 games of course, the hardware is more then capable enough to do that very very easily.
It does kinda sucks that we have to own like 7 different copies of the exact same game, but atleast they allow us to continue having playable access to this classic titles.
I'm the opposite: I would actually PREFER a remake or remaster, a "fresh" version of a game with new features and tweaks here and there, and think that simply having backward compatability is the lazier route.
@Effortlessgamer I don't think that was her point. I think her point was to simply compare the situation to the situation of the other 2 consoles which enjoy tons of backwards compatibility (especially Playstation) and how Nintendo has NEVER done this outside of the Gameboy and some of the DS.
If it happens, it's about dang time!
I've been holding my breath for the Wii U HD Zelda games to get Switch ports since 2017!
I've always wanted Twilight Princess on a handheld since the gamecube era as well!
"The Virtual Console service no longer exists,"?
wouldn't mind the handheld zeldas on switch. never owned past OG gameboy so they'd be new to me.
continuous remakes are Nintendo's lack of inventiveness
Great article, very good points, but I'll be damned if I don't buy Wiind Waker on Switch. I've waited for years for that. I have it on Wii U but I must have it digital download on Switch. I take my Switch a lot of places I can't take my Wii U for such a great adventure.
@Kirgo I perfectly get your point. I was just saying that having to buy it again digitally is not what I call Backward compatibility, if you have to double dip on something you already bought in the past.
The first PS3 was the perfect exemple of excellente backward compatibility, I remember using not only my PS2 discs, but also my PS1 discs, therefore when the console came out, I already could play dozen of games on it
Having a DVD player for the Switch would be a bit dumb also, it would only work on docked Switch and make little sense for a portable device.
This article is biased IMO, but I get other's point of view also.
I am guilty - and would buy a 3rd copy of Wind Waker on Switch as it is one of my favorite Zelda games.
I'm a bit confused by this, because we still get plenty of new games in the series to peruse, and the switch can't have backwards compatibility with the wiiu due to one having CDs and the other having very small carts. I at least don't feel infantilized, because these remakes and ports aren't just for the people who grew up with them, but the people who haven't experienced them yet
@oldscool just because you don't like to play games as they were, doesn't mean everyone feels the same as you.
I prefer the remakes myself as they offer QOL improvements. I certainly don’t play my gamecube copy of windwaker when the superior wiiu version is available (and the first tome I beat WW after giving up as a teenager due to lack of free time. I do wish the 3ds remake games weren’t locked on the system as I prefer to play with an N64 controller but I am fine with replaying the originals or VC in that case. People are finishing skyward sword now, i would love for someone to green light redoing the rest of the handheld Zeldas as well. I will still often play my originals but I think remakes are the best way forward.
@BinaryMessiah Well most of the time I agree, however I can see a remake or remaster appealing to old audiences if the original was a potentially fun game riddled with issues and/or bad design choices.
Nah nah nah you gots to play TP properly please. Stone cold classic. Except the wolf bits. But without the weight of the future of Zelda on its shoulders, and without the rupee pickup messages, 🤌
@F_Destroyer No, the European PS3 didn't have full PS2 emulation to enable backwards compatibility. Full PS2 emulation on the PS3 didn't happen until the PS2 Classics range of downloads was made available well after PS2 BC had been killed off.
What the European launch units (And 80 GB PS3's in North America) had was a hybrid hardware/emulation setup. Instead of containing both the PS2's CPU and GPU like launch systems in Japan and North America did, the PS2's CPU (the Emotion Engine) was emulated by the PS3 itself with only the PS2's GPU remaining.
That's why PS2 backwards compatibility eventually disappeared but PS1 didn't. When the PS2's GPU was eliminated in subsequent cost cutting (Which was about when I bought my PS3, circa 2008), Sony discontinued the feature.
Had it been full fledged software emulation, it would've remained just as PS1 BC did (Even the last Super Slims played PS1 discs).
@Atariboy Right I forgot about it being half software half hardware. But still the PS5 could do it without any problem
@Budokai One is a re-release for 70 dollars or equilant, one at least has new content.
I don’t agree with Nintendo’s dlc plans either, though for Splatoon, it will probably be included in NSO expansion pass.
For the record, I haven’t bought a Splatoon title, though I enjoyed what little there was in the splatfest tutorial. Splatoon seems cool, but I haven’t dipped because I don’t have the time or neccessary effort required to «git «gud» at a competitive game.
The only Zelda game that needs a remake is Zelda II. LA was cute but apart from the graphics it was virtually identical to the GBC version.
(I'm still annoyed we had to pay full price for Switch ports of Wii U games while PS5 owners got free upgrades from PS4.)
"But we'll buy them anyway"
Speak for yourself, I haven't bought a Zelda game since Breath of the Wild.
@ketrac of course, which is why I might buy it anyway. Sad isn't it?
As someone who skipped a handful of consoles because I can't justify buying them for just one or two games that appeal to me, I always appreciate it when those games get remasters for a console I do own.
And if I don't want to pay full price, there's always ways around that too.
@Budokai and that is why we lose.
I've had this argument in the past with users on this site so I will keep this brief. Switch backward compatibility is impossible just from a sheer incompatibility with disc-based media and the fact the architecture of the Switch is wildly different from the GCN-Wii U. And before people mention Microsoft they have a spotty track record and even they cannot provide true backwards compatibility even though the Xbox, Xbox 360, Xbox One and Xbox Series systems are all generally more similar to a PC than a traditional games console. Providing true backwards compatibility for consoles older than 2 generations is a herculean undertaking even for a company as resource flush as Microsoft. Even Sony gave up on the idea of supporting backwards compatibility for all their previous consoles with the PS3 when they stripped out the hardware in it to play PS2 games (cost-cutting) and completely dropped the idea for the PS4.
That and we love the Zelda re-releases because they are more than just ports. They tend to improve the quality of life experience of the base game and vastly improve the visuals. The only exception to this was the Zelda Collections on GCN but was more a bonus disc than an actual re-release.
The thing is while backwards compatibility from NES through Switch sounds like an amazing idea! In practice, it is highly impractical and would be a Frankenstein console that would not look appealing at all. I would not mind moving forward if Nintendo focused on backwards compatibility, but to expect the Switch or its successors to have true backwards compatibility with pre-Switch consoles is a pipedream and non-sense.
@Itachi2099 I have no idea where people get this idea that emulation is just a magic line of code and everything runs perfectly no matter what you put in it and if it does not you're lazy. Emulation is extremely difficult to do and some consoles still are not perfectly emulated on PC. PS3 emulation only recently on PC has become mildly feasible for hobbyists who don't have expensive rigs and there are still a number of 3DS games that don't work at all or have massive performance issues on Citra. Emulation of "modern" consoles on PC is still really spotty even with systems that are almost 20 years old.
If Nintendo were to develop an emulator for Wii U and 3DS on Switch it would still be very difficult. And in the Wii U's case, it would probably be easier to port those games to Switch because it would be way less taxing on the hardware and that is before we talk about having to figure out how to display the duel screens on a single monitor and limited touch support (one of the reasons I hate DS emulation on PC). There are legitimate hardware limitations that people just do not take into consideration at all and that really bothers me and a lot of people who actually understand the topic. And that is before we even discuss how people confuse backwards compatibility with emulation.
Okay, first of all, emulation and backwards compatibility are not the same thing. The Switch can't exactly accept GameCube discs. Second of all, if they were re-releasing the Wii U versions of these games (and I don't see why they wouldn't, as they're the most complete versions), I really can't see how the Switch would emulate them. Sure, it sucks having to pay for them again, and the $50/60 these will probably cost should be lower, but the Switch cannot feasibly emulate a last-gen system. I'm sorry.
I suppose you could make an argument for the original versions of these games being available on Switch Online, and sure, yes. That would be great. But I don't see Nintendo doing that when updated versions exist, even if it means you have to buy them again. It's why ports of the 3DS Zelda remakes don't seem in the cards for me. That and I don't see them bothering to re-tool the dual screen features for a modern console.
@CharlieGirl The Series X utilizes emulation for OG Xbox & 360 games.
@Tott Thank you. I wasn't very well when I wrote this and I think it shows, but I wasn't expecting so much backlash. I definitely didn't mean that the Switch should have a disk drive 😅
Of course it is. Works for Sony
@Tempestryke I'm not saying I don't like playing old games as they were, nor would I wish to take that away from any gamer. I just tend to like the "quality of life" improvements of remakes/remasters, which makes me "part of the problem" as outlined by the article. Some of my favorite remakes are the ones where you are given an option to toggle the original graphics and sounds. If anything, I wish Nintendo was much more aggressive with releasing its back catalog in terms of quantity and features. There are official versions and revisions of games that only hardcore collectors or emulation enthusiasts are able to play. That just doesn't seem right.
@KateGray I really do appreciate the article as well. The fact that it has received so many varying perspectives is really a good thing. You sparked the discussion!!! If anything the article comments expose the nuances of a Video Game industry that struggles with the conflict of balancing preservation and availability with the overarching priority of cashing in on your back catalog.
@Ocaz you know I can read these comments, right? No need to be so mean.
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